3-13 map question....

[KootDawg]

With the plane set given.... can someone tell me how to win fighting each plane on each side..... Or should I say if I flew every plane given how do I fly each to WIN.......

Thankyou in Advance..
KootDawg
See you in the Sky!!!!!!!!!

[Cobra412]

Ive been wonder this myself.  It seems most of the tactics being used are "gaggle doctrine", "strike-rejoin-strike", "bait and switch" and some modified form of "fluid four/double attack".

I've found more often than not flying the 109 series to use the bait and switch on the deck or strike-rejoin-strike if I've got a good pilot with me in the area and the altitude to do it.  The bait and switch is highly dangerous to do though.  Once you've got the first kill extend and reengage once you've got an idea how many more cons are inbound.  This can be easily used by the allies too.  More often than not it is in the low alt gaggle engagements but most probably don't think about it.  Biggest thing is keep your energy up in this and use slashing attacks or bait cons to go vertical.

More often than not the allies are using the strike-rejoin-strike so it seems.  Constantly keeping pressure on the defender so they can't go anywhere but lower in alt or make a vital mistake and try to zoom again.  We've barely got enough time to regain a slight bit of maneuvering energy and we lose it again with in 5 to 10 seconds max.  I've also seen them using the bait and switch too.  All of these fit the allied planes capabilities though as they are fast and maneuverable.  Using there acceleration in the dive to there advantage and there maneuvering over the top any one of these planes can successfully use these tactics to there advantage.  

I'd honestly say your best bet is not to try and learn everyone right off and expect greatness and some magical solution to flying them.  They are all pretty much the same to an extent.  Just have to know when and when not to zoom, turn or most of all learn when to disengage.  If you can start to figure out when the situation is going in the opposite direction and pick the quickest way out you'll be fine.  As much as folks like to complain about runners it's best to learn to fly smart and know when your in trouble.  Pick your fights don't let your opponents pick them.

I've found either side is fairly matched so long as the pilot uses some caution in flying.  That doesn't mean only engage when you feel it's an absolute kill but weigh the consequences and be patient(plan ahead).  

Also try not to make more than a 90 degree turn at any time during a furball unless your absolutely positive you can do so without being saddled up.  After your turns do a quick cold side check to ensure no one slipped in behind you or is maneuvering to do so.  Once again energy management is the key here in all of these birds.  You can turn and burn most of them but only do so when your confident you can get the kill in less than 3 turns.  Anymore and it's possible you can be countered.

Try and keep the fight to one side as much as possible to eliminate those blind attackers.  If you go too deep into the fray then your most likely gonna get saddled up unless a friendly is close enough and paying attention to clear you.  

Alot of it is just learning what you can and can't do.  When you can zoom and when you can't.  How far in can you suck an opponent on your six before you can counter and force an overshoot into a short lasted flat scissors or rolling scissors. Any extended maneuvering is bound to get you saddled up so extend whenever possible and reengage.  Timing is key to everything you do when your flying.  And so is experience.  Can't learn if you haven't screwed up doing something.  Look at me..I get killed alot..lol

[Grits]

I agree with Cobra. The easy part is learning each plane's strengths and weaknesses, the hard part is getting everything together in your head so you know what to do, and when to do it and you do it with out stopping to think "oh I should do xxx". The plane you are in at the moment is important, but as he said, they are all similar in so much as you dont want to do needlessly dumb things (I'm still working on that part myself).

For example, all too often I am impatient and I fly straight to the fight, I dont take a second to anylize whats going on. Then when I get there, I have not got a plan to get out if I need to. And to top it all off, I regularly disregard his very good advice not to turn more than 90 deg.

The only thing I would differ slightly from what Cobra said is I think aggressiveness is key no matter what you fly. Do something they dont expect, like instead of zooming on a BnZ pass in a P-47, blow some speed, yank around and get them while they are thinking of what to do. Lots of times you can kill them while they try to decide how to counter a move they were not ready for. This can leave you high and dry in a bad situation though (and it happens to me) so thats not for everyone.

You should pick your fights, not let the enemy pick them for you, and always watch for someone trying to saddle you while you are killing their buddy, but once you decide to go for the kill, GO FOR THE KILL, dont hold back.

[KootDawg]

this is very interesting.... I like these tatics i don't fly by them... I need to.. The other nite I flew 10 sorties and was shot down not killed 9 times and killed on a landing..... able to sta alive now need plane to make it home... I see E is a very big thing.....

but I love getting on a 190's 6 at low speeed and staying there in a 38 but someone always saddles up with me and I end up bailing....

[Reschke]

Koot,

The easiest thing to remember out of what Grits said is this, "once you decide to go for the kill, GO FOR THE KILL, dont hold back." The second you are indecisive about putting the rounds out at a target you have lost a little portion of the edge you had by getting on the targets tail.

One example of this is in the IL-2 series. The second you give you flight mates an opening on the target you have saddled and are riding in they will jump all over it and you better hope you are out of the way. Its kind of the same way in AH.

[Grits]

The other thing is dont get dicouraged. We all start out at the same level when we are new, even the best guy now was horrible when he first started. I do OK, but even the best guy can get a cold streak. Last night I went three sorties in a row with no kills and VERY quick deaths, while my average is about 1.5 per death and .9 per sortie.

Keep at it, dont give up or get upset. Your in the 78th Eagles right? Ask some of your squadmates, some of those guys are not only nice, but are pretty darn good sticks they can help you for sure.

[KootDawg]

Yes I am in the 78th. I talk to them and listen to them..... Just also wanted to hear from ya'll too.. hard to talk at times while in the air in the CT...

But as for giving up nawww not me and getting killed don't botehr me just want to become a better stick and ask to see what others know... Lowe and Hawk are great to explain and teach things to us and we have Phazer, Taxi and others too...

Just looking in other places too....

[Grits]

Yup, those guys help non-squaddies too, Taxi taught me how to use the Bombsight, for which I am eternally grateful.

You sound like you have the right attitude. My #1 rule is no matter what you do, if you are not having fun you are doing something wrong, no matter how high your kills per death/kills per sortie  or score is. Fun is #1.

[Reschke]

One thing I like to do with the Corsair (favorite ride and the one I try to be really good in) is to make aggressive moves that put me in guns range quickly. If I am above my target I will make a slashing pass just off their nose (if I am unseen which isn't likely) and use my Energy and acceleration to extend and setup again. Now I also pretend that the Corsair is a Zeke and start turning with some spitdweeb and end up getting my plane shot out from under me. Those are usually the times when I have the most fun.

[KootDawg]

I don't fly the corsair much. but man can it dive and I know you need to watch your E in that thing and it don't turn but old Pappy Boyington could fly it and his squad.....

I love the 38 and have fun in it too... the 47 is fun also... actually all of them are fun.... Where else can you die and get back in the air???? not for real..... LOL

Alot of repect for a real Fighter Pilot especially WW2 ones they had gahunga's bigger than all of us.. or atleast me.....

KootDawg

[Furball]

You guys make it seem wayyyy too complicated.

All you have to do is not be afraid to try stuff - figure out how to make people overshoot, then figure out how to make people overshoot and manipulate it so they get forced into a position where u can whack em.   fight agressively! Pee's me off to see people that would rather run and land than even attempt to fight.  Wont learn diddly squat that way.

Eventually you will learn how to fight in ANY plane to a reasonable standard - then you can work on the finer points of each model.

In my opinion of course.

[Grits]

Furball said much clearer what I was trying to say.

Fight aggressively, learn to become deadly, learn to live and land later. Actually,  once you learn to kill quickly, the returning to land just happens on its own, you wont have to try.

[Shane]

Originally posted by Furball
All you have to do is not be afraid to try stuff

best advice anyone can ever give (and take).

[Cobra412]

Agressiveness can be looked at in two ways.  Being smart and agressive or being dumb and agressive.  Hence why I said earlier about being cautious when you fly and thinking smart.  You can get in over your head very quickly and in the end you've learned what?  How to take off again and fly back to the furball and thats it.

If you change up your attacks constantly it'll leave the other pilot guessing what is next.  Don't just constantly slash, extend and reengage.  If you've assessed that there is no threat close enough use the loop or a spiral climb or a banking flat during your egress.  Use a a few slow developing attacks then change up and get right back in as soon as possible.  Then when they are least expecting it (if you haven't already killed them) slap that throttle back, get on the rudders and saddle up.

You can be aggressive and learn when and at what angles you need to engage for snap shots and such but it's still a matter of being smart when doing it.  Some mistakes you'll learn from but others will only leave you in frustration.  If you don't immediately realize what you did wrong then your not gonna learn much.  Some things may leave wondering wtf which is common but others you should pickup on right off.  There are many great sticks out there and thats when you start doing the wtf thing.  But others are good, mediocre and just flat out ducks in a shooting gallery.

I agree with Furball that landing your kills will come in time but saying we are making to complicated I don't.  Learning the basics of maneuvering and counters is fine in a one on one fight against a fairly equal opponent and aircraft.  When you start running into the better sticks you better be able to realize what it is they are trying tactically or your gonna be in deep trouble quickly.  Especially when they have a wingman.  You'll find yourself getting pinched/bracketed and sandwhich all to often.  When you can successfully defend off two good wingmen and get atleast one of them or last for awhile you'll start feeling more confident.  With that you'll find that your flying becomes natural and very little thought is required to fight the good fight and live or die with pride.  You'll know you did your best regardless of the outcome.  

Once again extending and fighting the smart fight isn't dishonorable as you'll be coming back to fight again.  Atleast on equal or slightly less than equal optimal fighting conditions. Anyone who whines about runners is only pissed cause they missed there chance to hammer you and want a second chance.  Give it to them but don't make it easy and turn back into the fight right away.  Extend enough to make a low g, low energy draining turn and come back with atleast a one turning radius seperation before you go back to level flight and are ready to fight again.  With higher speed aircraft you may have to adjust your distance out a bit more than normal to ensure you've got good seperation after completing your turn.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Cobra412
Once again extending and fighting the smart fight isn't dishonorable as you'll be coming back to fight again.

Certainly it isn't dishonorable.  But it IS very boring, and you don't learn as much as you do when you pick an opponent and actually try to maneuver onto his six.

Some people get really discouraged if they don't get kills.  If that's you, Cobra's advice is very good.  An alternative view is that these are very difficult skills to learn, and it will take you a long time to learn them.  During that time - measured in months, certainly, if not years (....if ever, for some of us), you are going to get killed as a matter of course.  Take Frank Savage's advice - consider yourself already dead - try something new each time, as others have said, and take away a new bit of knowledge from each fight.  You may be surprised at just how much fun it can be, even if you aren't getting any kills.

- oldman