3-13 map question....

[Furball]

Originally posted by Cobra412
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah BLAH

There you are making it too complicated again.  Aggressive = kill your opponent.  Doesnt matter about flying smart or not.

Once you learn to kill your opponent.  Then you can decide to fly smart.  Running away in the first place wont teach you how to beat someone.

I learnt in hurricane IIC.. you learn how to anticipate how to get into shooting position because its so slow, you learn ACM by avoiding BnZ'ers and most importantly you cant run away - you have to fight your way out of situations.

[Soulyss]

Furball does make some sense, I learned more in a few months of flying the Hellcat than I did in a year of flying the P-51.  Not that one plane is any more capable than the other nessesarily, just it's to easy to take the out and run for it if you can.

[Grits]

I am solidly in the "kill first, land later" camp. I think partly what Cobra is saying is you are not even going to learn to kill if you dont live long enough to do anything but fly to a 5 v 1 and die.

[Furball]

Did a couple of hurricane sorties to show you just what i mean.

First one good for showing lead turns and getting caught (i get caught on deck by 110 and 205 with 25 rounds) and having to fight outta trouble.

2nd is fighting multiple enemies at once and dying in the process.

you will learn from fighting like that.

Get Film Here

[Cobra412]

Furball whats your issue for starters?

Yes you can learn by just getting in there and TnB.  You can learn those lag rolls, reversals, hi/low yo yos, lead pursuits, lag pursuits, pure pursuits and lead turns.  But if you don't understand how to use those outside of a furball where are you then?  

Lead turning in a furball isn't always pure skill. Most of the time your just in the right place at the right time(luck).  Lead turning someone outside of a furball takes skill and alot of practice.  So does out maneuvering them when they have more than just the break turn, flat scissors and rolling scissors at there disposal on the deck.  Screw the merge and your most likely in DS right off the bat.

 Straight up TnB experience won't always help you either when your working with a wingman.  Understanding what options you have and what they have is critical.  Knowing when and what aircraft to isolate first and how to do it is also an issue.
I suppose you'll learn that from TnB only?  What about learning the skill of switches and when to do so, is that to complicated?  Flying a less capable aircraft will over time teach you alot but using it purely for TnB and suicide missions is absurd.  Switching up your tactics during a fight is considered intelligent flying.  You'll be unpredictable and therefore harder to take down.

And yet again when you extend to reengage does teach you something, it's called patience.  Extending out isn't to run completely it's to gain enough seperation to even the odds when you reverse back in to the fight.  Also if you don't know and understand how and when to disengage then whats the point of joining a furball?  Do you just plan on getting as many kills as possible and then die when your bingo ammo or fuel?  I'm assuming this makes some think that they are so much better cause they got alot of kills in one sortie and died or bailed.  Thats where some differ from others.  Conserving enough fuel and ammo and always leaving a way out is intelligent flying.  Does it always happen, no.  Should it be your primary goal, yes.  If you can get into it but can't get out whats that say for your skills?  Your in over your head and not thinking, thats it.  Over time you'll not have to worry about thinking cause it'll become natural.

[KootDawg]

thxs for the films its good for MA but not team play in the CT though I think.

They are quite interesting works of flying:aok

[Furball]

dont have any issues, sorry didnt mean to offend you.

What im getting at is... once you know ACM you can use it in ANY plane.  Once you know ACM you can move on to cherrypicking or BnZ if you prefer.

But if u get caught out, you can fight your way outta trouble because you have the practice to go back on.  Makes a better all round AH player.

If you start off running from fights you will not get that experience and no doubt be clueless as to what to do when bounced.

Just trying to share my experience in AH, what i did worked ok for me.

No offence but anyone can monkey, bnz, cherrypick, run, its not hard - thats the easy bit.  Learning to fight without doing the above is the hard bit.  Get that out the way first and yer sorted.

[KootDawg]

its cool I can use that furballing in the MA......

Just I am really looking for how to fly the plane set we now have... And with a wingman..... that way I can learn a better way of flying..... I know 2 v 1 is better odds... not 1v2.. I try to stay out of those situations unless forced into them...

Most of all in this new setup allies have the F4U and i like the plane.. I know you need to conserve E or should I say manage it.. but what tatics should I use and what should I not do????

[Furball]

F4u is very good at speed, remember the gear can be used as airbrake too if u need to make anyone overshoot.

When im flying f4u in MA, i spiral climb up to 7 - 10k depending on alt of fight, pick a target out. anticipate where he will be (so not to pull G's to waste E trying to hit target), dive on him, attack, pull vert until you feel comfortable, level off, (dont lose control, as u get used to plane you will be able to level off at slower and slower speeds) pick another target and attack again.

I try to keep flying as vertical as possible.  Get right above target so he does not have any escape routes,  whichever way he breaks its just a quick roll for the f4u to get shot off.

I also like doing a feint attack on a target who keeps breaking low or something.  to do this i just start the attack, i pull up as soon as i see him starting the evasives, roll inverted and keep my eye on him, as he is coming out of the move - then i hit him.  It is likely he would have lost sight of you, has low E or both.

[Cobra412]

cc Furball.  I do agree with you though in a wayand I originally thought you may just being disrespectful, no hard feelings.  Furballing/TnB will help you to learn how and when to use evasives.  I started this game flying the Mk IX and doing pretty much all TnB.  Though it's supposedly way overmodeled and such it does have its limits.  And with flying it I've learned E conservation.  Some may say it's because it's so easy to fly and is giving me false security.  I beg to differ though.  

With flying the Mk IX it's not as simple as some may think to avoid and defeat all pilots.  Against the strongest pilots it's fairly easy to handle.  Because it will burn energy fairly quickly in extended maneuvering it's hard to get chances to fire.  Thats how I learned E management.  Because I kept using hard evasives I could never get a shot.  So I started relaxing a bit and only using the minimal amount of turning I needed to in order to avoid getting killed.  Though I hadn't realized it I was stepping forward into learning the pros of energy and potential energy.  Slowly I got better as I learned what I could and couldn't do.  Constantly checking my indicators to find out just how much input i could use before I started to bleed off my speed.  Now it's fairly easy to tell when I'm turning too much and when I'm not.

Basically what I'm getting at is yes I learned alot with exactly how your stating in your case.  But had I had some of the knowledge I have now it may or may not have been slightly easier to excel in the ACM area.  I think by knowing even some of the more advanced skills will help newer pilots to progress a bit faster.  When they see and learn one thing they can start to implement it with some slightly more advanced.  With every little extra thing they learn means that they will be progressing slightly faster than the next person.  Which means the rest of us will have more challenges out there instead of the top 300 players or so that can hold there own or be considered more than just mediocre.  

Overall the competition will be higher and to me more enjoyable.  Plus no matter how you look at it over time these same topics will be sought out by other players wishing to advance there skills.  With that the more knowledge and experience we as a whole community can provide will benefit us all at some point and time.  There are too many really good sticks who fail to help others and give them insight to what they do wrong and what they do right.  I just feel that we should start giving more and taking less.

[KootDawg]

thankyou....

Both of you have been very helpful. and i am sorry I cam across as possible being disresptectful.. I am not trying to convey or be that way... just trying to learn....  I flew for real when I was younger and done aerobatics alot but in this pc driven simulator and dog fighting its new. new tatics and manuvers... more than just not hitting the ground.

one observation is the P40... a Straight and level flyer... when in a dog fight 1on1 I have Bricks in the backyard that fly better than the P40 tha I can fly better...

I know with the allied planes you need alt and speed. they are heavier because of armor and they sometimes dont turn good.. but there are exceptions...

[Reschke]

Koot,

I should be on later tonight in the CT and would be glad to run through some F4U flights with you and the rest of VF-17. We typically fly the F4U when available in the CT and that is our only ride in the MA (except for a couple of FM2 guys).

[Cobra412]

Koot I wasn't referring to you.  I thought Furball was but have since found out differently.

[Grits]

Originally posted by KootDawg
I know with the allied planes you need alt and speed. they are heavier because of armor and they sometimes dont turn good.. but there are exceptions...

This is why I said sometimes doing something the enemy doesnt expect by flying aggressively and turning when they think you will extend. This can also get you low and slow and dead, but it works quite often.

[KootDawg]

Reschke i don't know if i will be on tonight but I will be on Sunday  and monday night