Author Topic: Do you wonder why the US troops loose the population support in Iraq? (Read 2605 times)

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #15 on:** April 15, 2004, 06:58:36 AM »

They did destroy their loot... So they did punish the wrong people.. Look atv the video..

Those guys were totally careless and unproffesional.... They were not acting as american soldiers should.

Those Iraqis didnt look so tough and nothing seems to show they were resisting, a little verbal attention and initimidation, like police officers do, would have worked just fine to send a message.

deSelys · « **Reply #16 on:** April 15, 2004, 07:00:43 AM »

Hortlund

For instance, they could have taken them and towed the car to some kind of control post where an officer would have decided what to do. No violence is needed if they don't resist. This idiotic wild wild west parody (I mean, shooting the windshield and the tyres BEFORE crushing the car, come on!) can only have a serious detrimental effect to the people watching from a safe distance away and not knowing what is really going on.

edit: and maybe if that car doesn't look great to you, it must have a higher value to those Iraqis than yours has to you. I don't think that a lot of Iraqis own a car...

Hortlund · « **Reply #17 on:** April 15, 2004, 07:07:56 AM »

Well, the problem is that this probably took place at a moment in time when there was no law in Iraq.

The looters are civilians so they cannot be taken prisoners.

There is no Iraqi police force so they cannot be handed over to the proper authorities.

The US forces are responsible for keeping order, at the same time you can bet that the GI's would find themselves on toilet-cleaning-detail if they brought back all looters to their Command post...so what to do...to complicate things even further there is a pesky news crew there shoving a camera up their noses.

Soo..something has to be done...hey look at that car...

deSelys · « **Reply #18 on:** April 15, 2004, 07:08:38 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
...Lets wait one minute till somebody who supports the war puts up a video showing the army doing good things, of coursre, naturally this means we can project that to mean all Iraqis will love us...

on this one Grun.

I agree that the US troopers certainly do a lot to help the Iraqi's lot regarding food, shelter, medical care...

However one act like this is enough to blow away all the trust built with patience and efforts.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #19 on:** April 15, 2004, 07:10:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hortlund
Well, the problem is that this probably took place at a moment in time when there was no law in Iraq.

The looters are civilians so they cannot be taken prisoners.

There is no Iraqi police force so they cannot be handed over to the proper authorities.

The US forces are responsible for keeping order, at the same time you can bet that the GI's would find themselves on toilet-cleaning-detail if they brought back all looters to their Command post...so what to do...to complicate things even further there is a pesky news crew there shoving a camera up their noses.

Soo..something has to be done...hey look at that car...

You think it was the right thing to do with even a camera taping it? Those guys were careless and unprofessional.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #20 on:** April 15, 2004, 07:12:45 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Gixer
I guess the "Will be welcomed as Liberators" and "Cheered into Baghdad" is a long distant dream now. Though I don't think many people believed they would be other then the spin doctors.
~~...-Gixer~~

Nilsen · « **Reply #21 on:** April 15, 2004, 07:13:29 AM »

There are idiots in every army that has people in it, not that it justifies anything but still i doubt that this is "the american way"....

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #22 on:** April 15, 2004, 07:15:04 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by deSelys
on this one Grun.

I agree that the US troopers certainly do a lot to help the Iraqi's lot regarding food, shelter, medical care...

However one act like this is enough to blow away all the trust built with patience and efforts.

I wouldnt go perhapst that far, people are resilient and can move on. However it cerainly doesnt help. Its not good for the Iraqi man because the punisment is excessive, he lost his car. Its sets a bad image. Its not good for the soldiers because it makes them more likely to be meanspirited and such.

I just hope the soldiers involved were held accountable and that somehow that guy got reimbursed by the army, and there are options set up by the army for him to do that, collect in cash for damages in iraq.

Gixer · « **Reply #23 on:** April 15, 2004, 08:48:58 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Holden McGroin

Holden, have you noticed how few people are actually in that square cheering when that happend? Wouldn't you of expected atleast a few thousand?

~~...-Gixer~~

Gixer · « **Reply #24 on:** April 15, 2004, 09:00:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I love how you project this one incident to suit your preconceved biases.

Lets wait one minute till somebody who supports the war puts up a video showing the army doing good things, of coursre, naturally this means we can project that to mean all Iraqis will love us...

I love how you can blindly ignore any incident that dosn't suit your precieved biases.

~~...-Gixer~~

Ripsnort · « **Reply #25 on:** April 15, 2004, 09:04:46 AM »

Old "Kuwaiti Invasion" habits are tough to break, aren't they?

Seriously though..here's a follow up:
FRONTLINE's editors respond:

Several viewers have also written in about the incident shown in FRONTLINE's report in which U.S. troops used a tank to crush the car of a looter. In late October, at a Georgetown University forum, a student asked Deputy Sec'y of Defense Paul Wolfowitz about this incident. Here is Mr. Wolfowitz's response:

"We are looking into it. And mistakes, pretty ugly mistakes can get made in wartime. And that is again one of the reasons why if you can find a peaceful way to resolve things it is so much better. I would remind everybody here...it wasn't so long before that incident when people were saying 'Why don't you shoot a few looters in Baghdad because looting is causing terrible disruption...'

Looting has been a serious problem. I don't know why those mistakes were made in the particular incident that you described. I do know that the best way to change the situation is...to get more Iraqis on the front lines. They are much less likely to make those mistakes. So it's a legitimate question and we're looking into it."

With regard to this letter writer's mention of FRONTLINE's report "The War Behind Closed Doors" you can view the whole program online off our homepage http://www.pbs.org/frontline Just click on our View Online collection of reports.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/truth/talk/

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #26 on:** April 15, 2004, 09:05:15 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Gixer
I love how you can blindly ignore any incident that dosn't suit your precieved biases.

~~...-Gixer~~

Wow!! Have you even been reading my posts in this thread?

Just go back and read my posts in this thread, read them and then pleae rething what you just wrote..

I'm amazed that its even possible that you write something like that...

muckmaw · « **Reply #27 on:** April 15, 2004, 09:18:54 AM »

We lost the popular support in Iraq? Really? When did this happen?

Oh, you mean Europe is hoping we lose the support of the Iraqi's because then it won't make them look like they're as impotent as they really are.

Face it guys, the Eurpoeans are pissed off because we asked them to help us deal with Iraq, they refused, so we thumbed our noses at them and did it ourselves. They can't accept the fact that a country formed by the very people they considered outcasts, has become the most militarily and economically powerful nation on earth.

Oh and as for your ASSUMPTION that we've lost the popular support of Iraq....

from an ABCNEWS poll in Iraq, which was co-sponsored by the German network ARD, the BBC and NHK in Japan, with sampling and field work by Oxford Research International of Oxford, England:

U.S.-Led Invasion Views

Right: Sunni Arabs 24% Shiite Arabs 51% Kurds 87%
Wrong: Sunni Arabs 63 Shiite Arabs 35 Kurds 9
Liberated Iraq: Sunni Arabs 21 Shiite Arabs 43 Kurds 82
Humiliated Iraq: Sunni Arabs 66 Shiite Arabs 37 Kurds 11

Attacks on Coalition Forces

Acceptable: Sunni Arabs 36% Shiite Arabs 12% Kurds 2%
Unacceptable: Sunni Arabs 57 Shiite Arabs 85 Kurds 96
Coalition Should Leave Now: Sunni Arabs 29 Shiite Arabs 12 Kurds 2

AKIron · « **Reply #28 on:** April 15, 2004, 09:33:02 AM »

Maybe they should have just shot them all like Saddam would have done? Or, chopped off a few hands like they would have done in their neighbor countries? It's common for looters to be fired upon in a situation like that. These guys got off easy. Get off yer ladder of pretentious indignation.

deSelys · « **Reply #29 on:** April 15, 2004, 09:38:00 AM »

Hey Muck, I won't speak for the rest of Europe but in my case I'm just hoping that:

the losses of life stop ASAP in Iraq

I've never hoped things to go in a hell basket for the US troops in Iraq. But I've never believed that it would be as easy as your daydreaming 2-digit IQ leader announced it would be.

Now if you're so sure that US citizens are welcome in Iraq, just go have your holidays there. It's sunny, and I'm sure that the hotels are pretty cheap.