n1k2 eng and wings?are they right?

[-towd_]

well tryin to get off the 51whineTM i was reading some of the other sections of this bbs and noticed some interestin posts on the n1k2.
it had a 2000 hp eng with a supercharger(poor supercharger tho)and no or very little pilot armor. this should make it a real danger to all other aircraft "51whineTM"
one post sighted a after war test in usa ( didnt mention ammo or fuel load ) that 420 kn was its top speed. well as most of you know n1k2 in ah is nothing like this proforms like it has no supercharger at all and while im not a number cruncher top speed at 5 k is what 325? is this a mistake? is it a beta thing?

also tho i dont remember the source but  stress modeling is coming to ah and as i remember the niponese planes in wb and aw shed wings at the drop of a hat compared to american/german  planes. is there any basis in fact for this? did n1k2s shed wings often in battle? were they a structual weakness in this plane and if so were all niponese planes weak winged? P.S. i really doubt this

what proformance figures were used for the n1k2? i know they were extensivly tested after war. so what stats are it eventualy gonna have? just climb rate and top speed with load and alt will make me happy

just tryin to stimulate disscussion,and kill 51s hehe
 

[dolomite]

Those Japanese planes were lighter because they used less material in them. As obvious as that sounds, one critical area they skimped was in skin thickness. In a stressed-skin construction, that thickness is important to the strength of the airframe and how much stress it can take. In fact, successive models of the Zero had its skin thickness increased, contributing in part to the increase in weight of the aircraft. They could dive faster after that (though not as fast as the American planes).

The test data to which you refer I believe is about the Ki-84 Hayate (Frank). It was tested side-by-side with the P51D and P47D, and was faster than both at 20K (I believe). I've never read anything suggesting the N1K2J broke 400mph in level speed at any alt, though Vermillion is probably the guy to ask.      

The fragility of most Japanese aircraft is the stuff of legends, is very well documented, and reflected the design philosophy of the Japanese and the needs of the theatre of war.

[This message has been edited by dolomite (edited 12-31-1999).]

[Vermillion]

Actually no Dolomite  

The ZERO was lighter and unprotected, due to its early war turnfighting design philosophy.

But the N1K2 was the late war product of many hard lessons against the Americans. It weighed as much as a Fw190, and had plenty of pilot armor, self sealing tanks, and all the defensive goodies that the American planes had.

Its a very common fallacy that all Japanese planes were weak and fragile.

Yes are correct though that it was the Ki-84 that was clocked at 420 in that one test.

------------------
Vermillion
WB's: (verm--), **MOL**, Men of Leisure,
"Real men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires "

[dolomite]

I stand corrected. Most early war Japanese planes were lightly protected and fragile, the late war types were more robust.

Told you that Vermillion was the guy to ask!

[wells]

I've seen various sources that give different figures for engine power.  I think it's pretty safe to say that 2000 hp at sea level is accurate, in which case speeds of 350 mph should be possible.  However, at altitude, I've seen 2 figures...one says 1625 and the other one says 1300.  In the first case, a speed of 400 mph is reasonable.  In the second case (probably the more 'realistic' figure), the generally quoted speed of 370 mph makes more sense.  In any case, I think the AH model is lacking down low.

[-towd_]

thanks! you guys are great hope they tune her up some.

[Fishu]

At 5k you don't get 400mph speeds in any plane what you got here  
has to go higher, up to 15k at least, if you wan't to see 400mph in some of these (Bf109 might achieve 400mph before, if its not downgraded with the climbing rate)

What I think of N1K2, it is like a flying tank in AH.... really good mess up for good fights!
I would say it is best armoured fighters of AH, also climbs like one devil beast, better than Bf109. (definetly better than current Bf109...)
I've several times wondered how some N1K2 still flies after few hits which would prolly had stolen horizontal stab of other planes or wing..  
Sometimes I've blast N1K2 full of lead which makes 99% of other planes go loud BOOM, but it maybe loses wing

[spinny]

These are the stats on the Shiden Kai that Joe Baugher gives:

One Namajima NK9H Homare 21 18-cyl air-cooled radial rated at 1990 hp for takeoff; 1825 hp at 5740 ft; 1625 hp at 20,015 ft.

Performance: Max speed 369 mph at 19,355 ft; 359 at 9,840 ft. Cruising speed 230 mph at 9,845 ft; 230 mph at 6,000 ft; service ceiling 35,300 ft. Climb to 19,685 ft: 7 min, 22 sec. Normal range 1066 mi at 219 mph at 9,840 ft; max range 1488 mi with 88 Imp. gal drop tank.

Weights: 5,858 lb empty; 8,818 loaded;10,714 max loaded.

Only 415 of these planes were produced and the Homare engine was not very reliable.



------------------
Spinny, VF-17, The Jolly Rogers 8X

[juzz]

AH N1K2-J climbs to 20k in 7'34" and does 375mph at that height.

[funked]

I've read a few anectdotes by US pilots who were amazed at how much ammo it took to down a George.

[dolomite]

As opposed to what would bring down ordinary Japanese planes, maybe?

[Westy]

Japanese never got the perfomrance out of thier aircraft in 44 or 45 because they dod not have the octane fuel the US did when the
US tested them after the war.

Does that mean HTC is modeling low octane?
No idea. But it would be historically correct of they did. The Allied pilots fighting against the IJN and IJAAF aircraft flying with "PORKED" fuel is quite different from a
tuned up, tightend up and cleaned aircraft (wouldn't want the test pilot dying now would we?) flying with a hi quality, hi octane fuel in 1946 or 1947.

-Westy

[combat23]

good point westy.

[juzz]

Surely they would have done post-war performance testing with the correct octane fuel the engine was supposed to use? Changing the octane would require changing some parts on the engine, for which there were probably not alot of spares available, plus the risk of damaging the engine etc...

[Westy]

 Juzz. You missed the point.
 The aircraft were developed with hi octane fuel requirements BUT the Japanese did not have any by late 44 to the end in 45. It was low octane crud by then and the IJN/IJAAF aircraft performance reflected it too.
 
 --Westy