Author Topic: Why not HO? (Read 979 times)

NBKYDD · « **on:** May 23, 2004, 10:33:05 PM »

Just wondeing why so many people are so avidly against HO attacks. Do you really think that a WW2 pilot would not shoot at an enemy plane closing head on. I do not HO all the time but if you turn into me I Will and Do fire. It is not the only aspect of my game ......but I'm not averse to it. Also what is wrong with diving for my own field with ack if you r on my six? Would this not be an acceptable move for a pilot with a bandit on his six and a friendly field nearby????? Why is it frowned upon????? Would it not be bad tactics for YOU to follow Me into the ack? I have seen and heard a few coplaints in the last few weeks (in H2H rooms) about the way other people were playing the game. I think everyone choses how he wishes to fly........you don't like the way I fly my plane ......don't fly with me.....shoot me down......just don't trash my tactics.

Morpheus · « **Reply #1 on:** May 23, 2004, 10:40:13 PM »

A topic that is going on right now as a matter of fact.

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113481

The HO part anyways.

IMHO its do or die sometimes. Other times it can be avoided.

Its the situation that determines my actions rather than my actions determining the situation.

txmx · « **Reply #2 on:** May 23, 2004, 10:57:19 PM »

It takes Two to HO!
So there really no room for crying about it.

Kweassa · « **Reply #3 on:** May 23, 2004, 11:23:20 PM »

HO is valid as a tactic in everyway, except that it's essentially a suicidal move rather than a tactic.

A gung-ho HO attack is not a "tactic".

A 'tactic', is a series of preplanned initiatives which purpose is to let you win without getting hurt. In an air-to-air engagement, a Pyrric victory would be useless were it in real life.

The only reason HO can be considered a favorable move for many people is because us gamers don't have to worry about dying. Oh, real life pilots certainly won't refrain from shooting if they ever fall into a HO situation, but it's a situation they would try to avoid in the first place.

That being said, people who rely heavily on HO is basically frustrating to fight against. There's a basic sense of logic underlying in the whole theme of ACM and A2A combat, and those who go gung-ho is basically outside that logic.

So, it's sort of like this;

".. hmm, there he comes to HO again, I'll avoid it." ..... then... "hmm.. now, I don't think he's that stupid to try it again.. so I'll prepare something else, as he probably won't do it...".... but.... "oh geez, he's doing it again... ! Have to git out of the way....".... and again, .... "he won't do it for a third time, would he....?" .... but.. "woops, there it is.. the third HO coming.." .....

Now, it isn't really hard to shoot the guy down once you realize that his mindset is basically at the same level of a charging rhino.. but before you get that, it's quite frustrating and baffling to fight someone like that.

NBKYDD · « **Reply #4 on:** May 23, 2004, 11:29:32 PM »

I agree. I don't go looking to HO. You have virtually no advantage in that situation and advantage is what it is all about IMO. I prefer to try to plan my attacks and get more satifaction from anticpating an enemy's move than getting the actual kill. I rarely ever land kills actually.

MetaTron · « **Reply #5 on:** May 24, 2004, 01:03:32 AM »

If you HO you will most likely take damage, or die. So, if you can live with that, go for it. Just think about it from a tactics standpoint and see if it's worth it to you. How far have you flown? Are you needed where you are? Will it matter if you have to rtb?

A lot of people (as here) say that it takes two to HO. This isn't always true, as go the rams too. If a guy is compressed and you turn into him, he may not fire (or pull off in case of the ram). If your opponent is nose down and you both die, there is a possibility he will smack the terrain before you explode or whatever. He's going fast and pointing down. If he losses control he can only hit the ground after all, while your momentum carries you up.

If you're level and HO, well the playing field is more even then.

Think about it.

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #6 on:** May 24, 2004, 01:21:55 AM »

If the headon is the optimal choice for the situation I'm in, then I'm going to take it. Otherwise, I'll manuever for something more efficient and effective.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Citabria · « **Reply #7 on:** May 24, 2004, 01:54:41 AM »

if th enemy aircraft has a firign solution ready during your frontal attack you are a nonmoving target while you prepare your own firing solution.

likely both aircraft will be damaged and often if both pilots have avaerage gunnery and time to fire both planes will be deestroyed.

however if you are ready to fire and the enemy aircraft is still moving into position you have the advantage because you are about to fire and they are not ready. in this situation the odds are 2 to 1 that you will inflict more damage than they can.

don't give the enemy aircraft an easy shot.

would you sit still when an enemy plane was on your 6?

then why sit still when ones on your 12 if you have other options available to kill them without giving them a shot back.

Citabria · « **Reply #8 on:** May 24, 2004, 01:56:17 AM »

and 99% of all headon shots can be avoided by a simple rapid barrel roll with soem uncoordinated rudder and elevator to roll out of their fire.

mechanic · « **Reply #9 on:** May 24, 2004, 02:04:56 AM »

these tactics are not complained about by anyone who is not ignorant to thier own part in the HO.

the HO and the ack-running 'tactics' are valid in every sense in that, they might save you from a sticky situation.

personaly, as a spitV 'dweeb' (lol - theres another common misconception) i very rarely HO unless i am heavily outnumbered.

The people who complain at HO's are either to slow thinking to avoid the HO, have tried the HO and lost so, obviously, its not their fault, or they are generaly fed up with dying after flying for 15 mins.

only the last of these is really a fair stand point, as i do find it frustrating when a heavily cannon loaded SOB flies straight at me , spraying like a loonatic from 2k. In this case the HO is not always avoidable.

But, the bottom line is:
If you are dying from HO then it is at least 50% your fault and you have no-one to blame but HTC

if they hadnt made this game you would be playing a far more inferior combat flight sim or even doing something worthwhile with your time

Urchin · « **Reply #10 on:** May 24, 2004, 03:07:26 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
If the headon is the optimal choice for the situation I'm in, then I'm going to take it. Otherwise, I'll manuever for something more efficient and effective.

-- Todd/Leviathn

That is really all there is to it right there. 1 on 1, 2 on 1... I've got a better chance "fighting" as it were. If I see more coming in and they are dumb enough to joust with me... I'll take a 50/50 shot.

Steve · « **Reply #11 on:** May 24, 2004, 04:53:54 AM »

Quote

It takes Two to HO!

This is patently wrong. Incorrect. not right, not true, false, a misconception... etc.

SlapShot · « **Reply #12 on:** May 24, 2004, 09:07:46 AM »

I think the better question would be ..

WHY HO ?

Why fly a 1/2 sector or more, only to go HO with the first con that you engage and go down in flames or sustain serious damage. Can't tell you how many times I have seen people do this, who have left from the same field I did. I can only shake my head when I see that.

How many times have you fought someone and finally got the advantage when all of a sudden one of your countrymen decides to help, and goes HO, and you watch both go down in flames. Again, I have to shake my head.

I'm with Urchin on this. When odds are more than 2 v 1 and the situation presents itself (cause chances are I am probably gonna die anyway) I will take the HO shot. Outside of that ... I avoid them at all costs. I'll be damned if I am going to fly a sector to end it all on a 50/50 chance.

Zazen13 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 24, 2004, 09:10:58 AM »

Well, anytime I accept the HO, or cannot avoid it for some reason and die the guy who gets the kill invariably has about 17 kills in 500 fighter sorties and a 2% hit %. What accepting HO's does, unless you have an advantage of some sort ( ie: gravity assist in a dive, firepower,extended convergence range settings etc), is to give a far inferior pilot a far greater chance of ending your flight than he deserves. Forcing the would-be HO'er to actually fight in the conventional ACM way insures that those with no skill or talent, who rely exclusively on HO's for kills, do not end your mission. That is reason enough NOT to HO unless you have absolutely no viable alternative in my humble opinion.

Zazen

jaxxo · « **Reply #14 on:** May 24, 2004, 09:20:08 AM »

I hear ya slapshot..chased a guy from 14 k in a descending fight to the deck, finally get a solution and some dummy hos him, he happens to live and everyone tells him wtg..i was pi**ed!