How can a really bad pilot do so well?

[AKDejaVu]

 

I noted your kill stats and sorry for implying you fly dweebfire. You fly dweeb hog instead my bad..

Ah.. nothing like the tone of a smug LW pilot to set things straight.  I thank you for pointing out that its simply the plane I fly that causes all the misundestanding.

Voila! problem solved.

AKDejaVu

[Maniac]

lol! too funny!   you have to love these message boards hehe.

Belive in yourself AK  

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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-

 
   
http://www.rsaf.org/osf/

[This message has been edited by Maniac (edited 03-07-2000).]

[humble]

...when you see one of the real "aces" come into the arena (Hristo, aper or torque come to mind as wel as Mitsu)...

I've never had a "fair fight" with Histro or Mitsu that I can remember. If I ever do get one it'll be a mistake on there part (and yes they'll most probably kill me). Once in a great while I'll run into aper roughly in equal position, but it's rare...as for torque, he is a pure killing machine and IMO he is all SA and gunnery. Pilot skill is a factor but the really "high scorers" tend to fly smarter..not better. They only rely on that "pilot stuff" when they run out of better option's.

[Vila]

GEEZ!

Can hardly read these threads due to all the egos puffed up all over the place!

The pilots I respect the most are the ones that kick bellybutton and don't go around pattin themselves on the back all the damned time. Anyone ever hear Garner braggin about how he's a "demigod"?  I mean, a huge ego goes a little way for personality entertainment, and I don't mind a good swagger now and again, but MAN, this is intense.

Vila

[Rebel]

All y'all know you's my squeakes.  I'm better then all of you combined.  You can kiss my rosy redneck ass, and eat my .50's.



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-Rebel
JG2 "Richtofen"

[AKDejaVu]

Actually Vila, you are correct.

I respect you and Garner very much as I've flown against both of you quite a bit.  I must say I've shot you down quite a bit more than Garn tho ... though that's been a few years now.

The wierd thing is... I'm not a good pilot.  I can't kill the legends of the game and have no pretences as far as what would happen if I went H2H with 50% of the players in the game.

I was trying more to elude to how people are flying.  I was hoping to see a little more on target selection, aproach selection and such.  Not a "I'm better than all of you" type of discussion.  Nor a "well its obviously the plane you fly" discussion.

Could it be that things like avoiding HOs, concentrating on identifying immediate threats vs. lower priority ones... knowing when to stay and fight and when to run... knowing that a plane thats below you doesn't necessarily mean it has less e... that things like that actually matter?

I've flown with wingmen and without.  I usually do better with a wingman, though I've had my moments flying solo.  I don't have pretences of going into a furball and shooting down everything with a red Icon.  I've seen those that do it and am constantly ammazed.  I simply know how badly I fly and wonder how it is possible that my stats come anywhere near these guys?

Basically, I'd like to promote smarter flying.  You don't necessarily have to be a good pilot to fly smart.  If a friendly is behind an enemy... that may be a bad time to HO the enemy.  If an enemy is focussed on a frienly's 6... that may be a good time to focus on his 6.  The VERY simple things like that.  I simply don't see them happening from 90% of the pilots flying right now.

The wierd thing is, most of the pilots on will be more than happy to tell you about all the sim experience they have.  Its not like it is a bunch of newbies running around asking how to start the plane.  RTFM isn't something that is being thrown around here.

I guess what I'm saying is I'd like to have much better stats.  The easiest way to do that is to surround yourself by good pilots that make smart decisions.  I can't really help much on ACM, but I think everyone has good information on how to make killing easier.

AKDejaVu

[Minotaur]

Coyote;

While I can't say that your comments are mean.  I can say that they could possibly be considered de-meaning.  

I don't often find your your comments funny either.  On a hunch, I can guess that you really don't care.

I did however, find that picture with the guy up is "Kazoo" pretty amusing.  Nice one Weazel!  



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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
Trainer

[Gator]

> lol! too funny!   you have to love these message boards hehe.

Maniac, you read my mind!    I was actually lol and thinking the same thing before I got to your post!

BTW, love your "Independent Swedish Airforce" graphic.  

[Torque]

AKDejaVu doing well is all a matter of perspective, the most important thing is to have fun.
Most of the Topguns have been fly’n for years, so chin up mate it’s just a matter of time.  

[fats]

--- AKDejaVu: ---
I don't have pretences of going into a furball and shooting down everything with a red Icon. I've seen those that do it and am constantly ammazed. I simply know how badly I fly and wonder how it is possible that my stats come anywhere near these guys?
--- end ---

Maybe because the stats have little to do with who is good or who is not? Well I guess it depends what you regard as criteria to be 'good' in the first place. For me it's 1-on-1 duel ACM. If you personaly consider smart ( or safe ) flying to mark wether someone is good, then the stats will reflect that kind of pilot's ability more accurately.

If someone good in 1-on-1 goes and flies off in the arena challenging everyone into really tight dogfights, he is going to die a lot. Once in a while killing the whole furball of planes, which makes it all worth while. His stats will be quite low, but he is still good IMO.

If you take these two group of pilots: ACM and Safe, make them switch styles - the ACM pilots will generally do much better than the Safe pilots trying to fly ACM. The other style just generates higher stats automaticly wether it is your aim or not, so if you compare your stats ( safe flying? ) to someone really into dogfights it's apples to oranges.


//fats

[Vila]

AKDV,

I wasn't actually referring to you there, though, as others have said "doing well" is all relative  I have no pretentions that I'm as good as garner in a 1 on 1 fight... I'm not, but I've managed to nail him in the past by flying tactically smart... so I agree with your point.  Someone who is average-good in flying and shooting can do very well by flying smart tactically.

Fats brings up a good point... what do YOU think makes a "good" fighter pilot?  For fats it's pure 1 on 1 ACM deulling (presumably in a neutral start, in comparable aircraft).  While I find that kind of skill interesting, it's only part of the picture in terms of actual air combat scenarios.  If I was only interested in ACM, I'd be a spitfire guy .  I'm interested in the whole picture....  The positioning BEFORE the fight, the ability to dictate the terms of the fight, the actual ACM, and the end game (winning,attempting to disengage, or losing).  ANd a big portion of the picture we don't usually see in AH.... the effect on the mission.  These planes were designed to accomplish specific missions, and when employed in the way they were intended, I usually find it kind of cool to see that the designers weren't nuts after all .  SO in summary, for ME, pure ACM ability is only part of the picture.


Personally, I fly in a variety of styles.  When I have lotsa time to climb to altitude and pick my targets, I like to fly a little safe, and fly for streak.  I personally find this the most rewarding aspect to simming. OTOH, sometimes I don't have as much time, I'm just itching to get in a fight, and I'll engage regarless of bad positioning, numbers, etc.  It just depends on my mood.  Personally I used to like to be able to clear my score when it suited me, so I could sorta "seperate my moods" but what the heck.

Now, the score potatos are another issue.  A certain high scoring pilot who used to fly here was certainly good, but he was very careful to rarely be in a position of risk... and more than one of his kills came from poaching wounded targets from countrymen who had risked themselves for the victory, but thankfully, he's not here anymore.

Vila

[AKDejaVu]

I pretty much agree with vila and have seen fats fly enough to know that he does to.  I just don't remember the last time I saw you come in with an alt disadvantage Fats  Not saying you don't mix it up... just that you like to chose the terms on wich the fight occurs.

Basically, even for those that get in and mix it up without regards to score, you are still fighting with regards to surviving as long as possible.  The hopes are to kill until you run out of ammo or enemy... wichever comes first.  Is this done by diving from 8k up so that you can get a HO pass on the oncoming enemy?  While others are now higher than you?

ACM is a critical factor.  Positioning is even more critical.  The classic rope-a-dope move is not ACM... it is tactics.  My favorite kills to see have been when I executed the tactic perfectly and my wingman swoops in to get the nearly stopped aircraft as it hangs in the air.  Actually learning to come in behind an aircraft is more than just ACM... its situational awareness.  Learning to predict what a plane is going to do helps considerably too.  Everything added up makes the use of ACM seem minor in comparison.

AKDejaVu

[Ripsnort]

Wow, just read  this thread, hehe...where's Tern when ya need  him    JK, Tern!

Vila,
Garn: the BEST pilot I've ever seen/winged with in 15 years of flight simming...hands down.  The  most modestest individual in the world. Of course, this  is from my "fighter pilot-ego" perspective.

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Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
++JG2++ ~Richthofen~ XO
Aces High Training Corps
JG2 "Richthofen"
 
"Some people are only alive because it is illegal to shoot them."

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 03-08-2000).]

[AKDejaVu]

 

Garn: the BEST pilot I've ever seen/winged with in 15 years of flight simming...hands down.

I didn't really fly against Garn since we both flew for frogs back in the old days.  I used to be able to amass long kill streaks just by hanging around him in a dora.  He'd get everyone low and slow in a knife fight and I'd simply hang back and pick off any unwelcome late comers.  They'd totally ignore me as they felt that Garn was the only real threat.  I'd watch him in 5:1 battles virtually every time.  I'd vulch 2 of them and Garn would have already nailed the other 3.  I always felt that when that happened, I was simply robbing him of 2 more kills rather than actually helping him.

AKDejaVu

[Hangtime]

LOL; An interesting thread!

I'm with out doubt the best example you'll ever find of the scoreboard lying about pilot quality.

I absolutly agree with Vila; his view of the relative merits of flying smart vs direct ACM is in harmony with mine. But even flying smart is not rewarded with the AH score model.

In ACM I am about average; probably worse than average because I like to turn an AC that shouldn't be flown that way. What no doubt hands me a 'score' edge is my habit of flying the sim from a strategic perspective. I tend to look at the map and ask myself how I can change it. Then I go about doing just that.

Frankly; I don't give a rats bellybutton about scores and I wish the scoring system more closely reflected the pilot's ACM and SA acuity rather than strategic acuity. Then I'd be waaaaaay down the list where I belong. The only reason the score card has me where I am is because I fly the Map more than the furballs. While this is without doubt a lot of fun; flying the GAME instead of the PLANE should not be confused with being a good pilot.

In any case; from my perspective, it seems that the better pilots are always the ones on my six.  

I'd sure like to see someone at HTC set up a comp ladder and BBS header; this would be a heluva lotta fun, and reduce the chaff about who's a demi-god; or not.  

Salute all!

Hang
TDY/357th Pony Express