Prop Strobe Effect

[Dingy]

Guys,

I've seen ALOT of posts in here about the strobe effect seen when the propellors are rotating and how everyone is saying that that does not really occur in real life.  Most are decrying it as bad eye candy and want it removed.

I just want to let you all know that its my guess that this is going to be VERY difficult to remove and heres why.  Those props are really rotating yet we are constrained by the number of frames we see per second (our frame rate).  If we had an unlimited frame rate, my bet is that this strobe effect would disappear but since most of us only see 40 or 50 frames per second, we see this strobe effect as a result of the superb modeling of HTC et al.

So rather than squeaking about how something is not realistic, lets congratulate HT on modeling real prop rotation!

-Ding

[dolomite]

First let me say I have no problem with the prop modeling as it is- it in no way distracts me.

But it would be very easy to remove. Simply don't render it in high speed motion.   What I mean is, when the prop is moving fast, don't have the FE draw it.

And yes, congrats HTC for a fun sim!

[fats]

Easy enough to make alpha values tied to propeller RPM.


//fats

[Hristo]

Dingy got it right !

The stroboscope effect is framerate related. I just tried experimenting with ground clutter while watching the effect. Seems that higher framerate reduces the stroboscope effect. Of course, the lower the framerate, the more annoying the strobe effect.

I appologize for squeaking, it is really how it should be.

Now, anyone got a 1 GHz CPU and GeForce II ?  

[Thorns]

Hristo, check out Kryotech's computer....

[bod]

Hmmm.

If the rotation IS modelled AND it is framerate-dependant, than this has to be fixed ASAP. (I will never forget the framerate-dependant gunnery in WB 2.6)  


Bod

[Morbid]

I disagree regarding the rendering Dolomite. When looking at a prop from the front, you see a shadow the color of the prop blade and the tip arc as they are generally painted high-vis yellow. From the back you see a dark shadow as most blade backs are painted black to eliminate the stroboscopic reflections to the pilot.

The proper modelling would be a transparent disk of proper color and highlighting that catches the sun reflections as appropriate. When two prop arcs overlap you should see the beat shadow. And when the engines are running near idle, you should be able to blink, etc, and see the individual blades. Depending on gearing you can actually see the blades.

All that said, I think the look in Aces is great just as it is. If the stroboscope effect is tied to the frame rate somehow and what we are seeing is in effect a "movie" version of the sim, then fine. It's eye-candy I like  

All the other stuff will of course come in time as processors (graphics, 3D, and main) continue their race to higher performance and the sims become more sophisticated.

I think the guys at HTC have better stuff to worry about than fixing something that ain't really broke. (like finishing up and deploying the B-26  )

[This message has been edited by Morbid (edited 01-09-2000).]

[Hristo]

It is a good approach, but slightly ahead of todays hardware.

The strobe effect is more visible in planes with 3 blade props than the planes with 4 blade props (no, I am not starting the whine again).

My system is Celeron 333@416 and overclocked Riva TNT card. When I park on runway, with many objects around, the strobe effects is quite annoying (in plane I prefer to fly), at framerate of 20-30. In the air, however, the framerate is 40-45 and the effect is acceptable.

If the new object enters the view, there is usually a framerate drop. OK, I can live with that. But the propeller changes its RPM then (by watching the strobe effect), which is totally unrealistic.

Still, a good idea. I vote to leave it, I guess I need better hardware to get rid of it.

P.S.
I heard somewhere that 60fps + would be like you are watching the real thing.

[Dingy]

 

I heard somewhere that 60fps + would be like you are watching the real thing.

I average about 45 and the strobe effect is minimal.    BTW its a P3 550, 128MB RAM, 8MB Voodoo II

-Ding

[Minotaur]

Hristo;

 

Originally posted by Hristo:
It is a good approach, but slightly ahead of todays hardware. B]

What resolution do you run in?  

I use 800x600.  When I am on the runway I am 32 FPS and strobe effect seems barely noticable.

Mino

[Hristo]

1152x864, with 20 fps as absolute minimum, and average of 40 fps.

But I fly plane with 3 bladed prop. 4 bladed props do not suffer that much.

Still, video card, drivers etc. might also be important here. Hmmm.

[Ripsnort]

When you guys discuss your FR's, please post what res your running in...I've found a big diff between running 800X and running 1040X, one I get 40 FPS and the 1040 I get 30 FPS.

The thing I find dicouraging about the prop is not when it is spinning, but when the engine seizes or you run out of fuel, it seems that one blade is always stopped straight up so I can't aim  and shoot on the way down as a glider,it's basically spray and pray if someone comes across my windscreen in a furball.

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Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
"Whats this button for?"

[Minotaur]

RipSnort;

Yes, but it is SO GRATIFYING to get a "Dead Stick" kill.

Mino

[Hangtime]

Well.. I had not noticed the prop stobe effect as a negative till I set a friends machine up for AH. His 8meg ATI 3D card gives up a barely flyable 10 to 12 fps in flight and the prop effect makes the sim unflyable for him. With this modeling removed or modified he's see a significant improvement in his frame rates; making the sim flyable for him.

IMHO as a dollars and cents issue it should be modified or removed.. there's at least one pilot I know that won't be flying the sim because he can fly brand W without ill effects of any kind. There are no doubt more folks out there with marginal hardware who want to join the community of AH pilots but can't because of this one item alone.

Hang


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PALE HORSES
"I looked, and behold; a Pale Horse, and it's riders name was Death, and Hell followed with him" Rev 6.8