Another strat idea. A possible Hitech?

[jmccaul]

Hey, just another idea to encourage people to fly together as I believe this improves the experience and would also mean more in depth strategy can be involved in the game (i mean how intricate can the strat be if people don't co-ordinate themselves to achieve objectives)

   The idea would be flying slots. What would happen when people hit fly they are put in a ready room and only when the room is full can they take off. Obviously people don't want to be waiting around 10 minutes to fly so the number needed to fill rooms would have to be  adjusted to how busy the arena was or maybe just have a 5 minute limit on the rooms.
You could have rooms which require some people to fly bombers, e.g. Must have 5 fighters and 2 bombers to take off. Where and when certain types of rooms are in operation could be dependant on a few factors e.g. Number in arena, number of players in country, number of fields country owns, number of enemy fighters around field (over a certain number and rooms disabled?). Also when in a ready room you should be automatically be tuned to two channels - one for your room and one for all the ready rooms.  

Here are what I think are the advantages  

1) No obligation to fly with the rest of group you take off with. Many will still just do there own things which is what they pay there money to do.

2) I believe a fairly large proportion of groups will stick together just because they were probably going to the same place anyway and it only takes one person to say follow me and you've got a formation (very historic :-) )

3) If a pilot doesn't mind flying bombers he'll be a lot more inclined to jump in one knowing he is taking off with 8 fighters and it's a fair bet 5 or so will stay with him if he asks.

4) People won't be able to jump back into there plane and rush to the nearest furball they'll have a few mins to think about what they are doing

5) Planning - this is a very important an often overlooked aspect, with a intricate strat model surly you need a bit of planning (like in scenario's). These rooms and the 2 radio channels suggested you get 5 mins to plan and co-ordinate :-

On internal ready rooms channel
A: we going to fly together ?
B,C,D,F,G : yes
E:no
A: C,D take bombers we'll go for the ammo factory in 12, 9
A: ok rest of will take 51's and escort any probs
F:i'd prefer a 109
A: np

Then on all ready rooms channel
Field 4 : off to bomb ammo dump at 12,9 any other rooms want to hook up on the way
Field 8 : ok we've got a bomber here we'll meet over F7 at 5,000 feet
Field 4 : see you there

An ideal situation I know :-)

[Windle]

You have a point. How often during the war do you think single planes were sent out on attack sorties?  Would be cool to see groups at flight or squad strength appearing at one time rather than just single planes at a time.  


 



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~Lt. Jg. Windle~

VF-17 The Jolly Rogers 8X
      Skychrgr@aol.com    

[Hans]

QUOTE:

What would happen when people hit fly they are put in a ready room and only when the room is full can they take off?

ANSWER:

A lot of pissed off people who would view this as simply a delay in takeoff for no reason.

Basically you just making them wait in line like an amusment park ride.

Keep the ride, but no waiting line please.

[This message has been edited by Hans (edited 10-17-1999).]

[jmccaul]

Hey Hans what's 5 minutes between friends  

    Mabye your right maybe people would hate it, but I'd like to think most would enjoy the opportunity to fly with a group of people every time they take off and have a bit of time to do some planning while waiting. Obviously if you don't want to fly with other people you don't have to and in that circumstance it probably would be frustrating but the system wouldn't need to be on every field all the time, and it might make you think twice before going for that head on if you know death would result in a 5 min wait.

[Sorrow[S=A]]

I think the problem is self solving, there would have to be different ready rooms for different planes etc, put in 3 or 4 ready rooms for fliers, a solo, dual and wing room with the solo having no wait (take off when you want) duo only allowing once 2 are in and wing when you have 4.

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//Greycap from red two, 2 109's turning in behind you//
//nothing behind Greycap, your all clear. Whats that now 33? beers on me at st. Croix//
Any guesses who Greycap was? <G>

[Hans]

I love talking strat ideas.

Waiting on the sidelines isn't exactly what I want to do.

But.

For me if you want people to actually start flying missions, then thats exactly what we ought to do.

In game mission generator.  What I envision would be a waypoint style flight plan you could create down in the map room of an airbase.  Set your waypoints, send the plan to all the other people you want to go with you, and fly the mission.  It could be a ground attack mission, fighter sweep, ect.  When you land you score points for destroying your targets and successfully returning to base.

I would then give the players a reward for successfull missions.  When you reach a certain ammount of points you can spend them on one-time bonus airplanes to fly around.  One sortie in the Me262, B-29 or such.  Maybe aircraft carrier control or the ability to drive a tank on the ground.

Dying at anypoint resets you score to zero.  Stay alive and score points and then you can be the ultimate dweeb-for-a-day.

Hans.

[Herc]

I think Hans is on to something as long as it's totally optional.  You could have a 'planning' room that each pilot can check out before they take off if they so desire.  The planning room will allow someone to set up a mission on the map with waypoints and the like.  The planner could also set up the number of open slots and the plane types available for the slots.  Pilots can check out the available missions and jump into an available slot if they find one of interest.  The planner could go ahead and start the mission before all of the slots are filled if people start getting impatient waiting.  It would be a risky feature though, I'm not sure if people would use it and it sounds like a large coding effort.  Maybe when things settle down a bit?

MG

[Herc]

Actually, I forgot about scenerios.  This could be used for organized scenerios and informally in the general arena.  It may be a worthwhile effort.

MG

[jmccaul]

Hans the mission planner is a good idea (i think they have some basic form of it in AW3) but it is beside the point as the idea really was to give more people the *oppertunity* to fly in groups without any need to arrange for people to turn up rather than try to make missons flown in the arena more organized(although this would be a useful side effect of a ready room system due to planning time).
  Agreed though it should not be inforced on people who really don't want to wait. I believe every other field would be a good setup.
  Besides the idea was more about on the fly main arena sorties rather than fairly complex missions using waypoints etc. so while a mission planner will be useful for organized groups (i.e. squads and in scenarios) the ready room would be more for people who are in the main arena and want to fly in a group with other people hopefully giving the arena a more realistic air of team flying.

Remember Hans patience is a virtue    

[jimmiet]

i like the planned mission thing the waiting 5 min wouldn't bother me either cuz u would have enough people to help do alpt of damage n not only that but u could also have it to where u n ur whole squad could fly together waht an awesome idea just hope i can get my crashin problem fixed so i can play this game i think its the best wwII flight sim in a long timewb was good but ah rules.
 feel the heat......


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[Hans]

Hmmm....don't recall my waypoint idea being complex to use.

From what I recall of old planning sessions, missions consisted of about 3 or 4 waypoints on a paper map with colored thumbtacks and string.

Just have the waypoints and a sidebar noting altitudes and speeds.  Or even just the waypoints.

I think a two waypoint mission would work.  One red thumbtack over an enemy installation representing "ground attack" and green tack over your airbase which means "takeoff/land here".

Good enough for me.

The big idea I was hoping to strive for was a tangible and obviously usefull reward for taking the time to make missions to fly (fighter sweeps DO count too).  Points you acumulate so you can take a powerful, special, but rare plane out for a joy ride.  Hell, even a special paint job plane of an existing aircraft might work (all black P-51 for example).

Also, taking a page from another popular game called Everquest, make being in groups (aka part of the roster of people involved in a mission) worth more points per person than going solo.  This makes flying in organised groups much more desireable.

Kills two birds with one stone.  We get to fly missions in organised groups AND we have a place for those specialty planes everyone dreams of flying, but have no place in a multiplayer game on a regular basis.

Hans.

[This message has been edited by Hans (edited 10-16-1999).]

[jmccaul]

Hans your may be right about a mission planner not being complicated to use if you could knock up a mission plan in 2 minutes that would be great and make a planner a more useful tool but it still isn't a tool to get people to fly missions in a main arena when they want. You suggest rewards to make people fly missions but i am opposed to getting actual advantages (e.g. better planes etc.) over other players who don't want to fly missions as it simply isn't fair.
   You did suggest custom plane markings which i am an advocate of as they do reward a player without putting other players at a disadvantage (in an earlier thread i suggested there should be a system based on K/D ratios where players would get markings such as yellow noses so when you got close you could see you were dueling one of the games elite). It is a reward and could be used again in conjunction with ready rooms (although i personally would pefer it as an indication of the dogfighting prowess of an opponent) but on it's own would not do as much as ready rooms to get players in the same place and ready to fly a misssion with no hassel.
  Frankly if you want organize a raid in the main without squaddies you will spend 20 minutes on the radio trying to get a few people in the same place and ready to take off.      

P.S. an all black P-51 is a bit of overkill it might make it a possible target   Although i am sure itwould please the new zelanders amongst us.

[aircat]

ok its getting late so bare with... I like the general lines... but make it more relaxed.. you have a pre-ready room here you can sit around chat with those in flight and what not... let others know your waiting for them in the Pre-room... I invision somethign along these lines *I look around the vertual room and see a coffee pot brewing* I get up in real life wanting some coffee for real *while away my wing for the next mission arrives and sees a figure sitting in a chair with his legs kicked up on another chair reading a book and a cig smoking lightly in the ash tray on the table next to him, he clicks on the figure and gets a message "Away" so he waits for a few. I get back and we chat a bit and loosen up a bit ... one more is supposed to be rtb and almost back... he gets back and we can ask him if hes ready or if he wants a drink first... a short bit later we are loose but awake after some jokes have passed between us.. and a few tails are told...we head to the ready room and find out the area around a certain base has had enemy activity picking up, as well as some bombers making passes recently, ok we will climb to way point one to get our climb to alt then trun to way point 2 and loiter for 15 minutes and see what pops up. if nothing we can extend our route to an optional way point see if we catch those 109s thats been strafing the sheep in farmer Rhineharts Field, then return to base. we walk out to our planes climb in and start our babies up... taxi out to run way in a staggered form... the one in the lead gives the power up command and our engines start to growl louder and speed picks up... we all get lifted off beautifuly... and mission is under way!*

to end this story,
we get to way point 2 and loiter and sure enough 3 buffs, a spit and a 109 IB. we make quick work or the escorts and then gain alt safe distance away from gun range of the buffs... slowly climb over top... we are sweating now they are getting close to target.. we get somewhat to the side ubove and in front of there 3-9 line we make a fast charge at them each taking a buff... I get pinged a few time on the way in but no time to see what or if Im hurt... I hear one of the other pilots yell out on the radio hes been hit... we each clean the buffs and they start going down and shoots start to fill the sky except for the team leader who totaled the buff in one giagantic explosion (must have sunk a cannon round into the fuel tank). I start taking a damage assesment.. nothings hurt but the mechanic wont be happy... his plane has holes ALL OVER it... the other that had yelled over the radio wasnt as lucky.... he took several 12.7 mm into his raidator, he said he figured he could get it home by gliding and letting it take cool down times. the leader asked again to make sure.. he replied yeah you two go ahead... get those 109s... I got 2 kills and an assist.. Im happy.. so the leader and I turn to the optional waypoint looking for the 109s... sure enough they were strafing the sheep (thought it was Rhineharts old age getting to him). well we caught them with their pants down (hun pun intended :Þ)! there was only 2 and they didnt see us sneak up behind them. leader took a full burst befor I was fully ready downed one and the other broke hard left he was going fast enough on his strafe that he almost lost the tail out from under him. but he did do one thing.. made a large target   I opened up and watched as pieces flw everywhere. well that done.. we started a climb to 22k to return home... half way back we see a rather destirbing sight... the 109s made a last minute call for help. we didnt know this at the time and we just started a run home and prayed it wasnt.. they had almost 5 k on us and almost 8 to 1 odds.. but our fears were realised as we ran... they was NOT ours and they were PISSED... I look out the back to start getting numbers and the leader at this time is calling for help from a nearby field... 9 spits 4 109s and 5 stangs (dont you love a game where sides dont matter at times :Þ) they all are nosed down and catch up fast... the call the leader made was to no avail.. a bomber had just potted thier field and was in middle of repairs soonest a fighter could take off was about 15 to 20 minutes.. we didnt have that long... the leader and I was in mustangs...  but they had alt... time to pray... I think they thought we was nuts (or stupid) when we turned towards them and acted like we was going to try to pull a section on them (we also pulled back throtle... we headed for them they dived deeper to accomodate ur wish for a quick death... but then just before guns range we throtles up and dove... 3 spits and 2 109s and a 51 went steaper to get us... 22k turned into 10k real fast then 5 k we pull back and trimming the planes as much as we could barely pulling up 500 ft above ground.. that might seem alot but not at compression speeds... teh spits and 109 that followed wasnt so lucky but the other stang was... Im on right leader on left.. he takes the leaders 6 leader breaks firmly but not jerking left the pony follows hem intot he turn I start a left break turn.. perfect, I couldnt have asked for an easier shot.. and with my aim I need all the easy ones I can take... hes at 150 from me and in a high G deflection Im seeing in tunnel vision at this point but well enough to lay about 40 rounds into his tail... his stabalizers fall away and he's so fast at this point his tail kicks out from under him.. hes a mid air top on his wing tips... I barely mis running into him at this speed... and then the leader yells out... you have 12 bandits on your tail... *GULP* just about then another group that was patroling the area had seen this fight building just made it... they dive in from our 12 and start thier strafe run at my tail and work back... they had 6 various planes all in the attack to save me and the leader...  the firing behind me was enough to take out 5 of the aggressors... and make all but 2 that was left break from my tail... my leader made a hard turn and got off a high deflection shot at one of them. must have got one inside the cockpit as the plane seems to do its own thing and spin to an inverted position and slam in the the ground. I break into a half loop barrel roll on the up part I cut my throtle. and then apply a touch at teh top and roll back down behind the bandit. <GRIN> <my turn> I feed him what I had left and it was JUST enough as he starts to blow smoke... the leader had finished catching up and put a few of his own into him and was rewarded a nice fireball with wings. one of the other planes that saved us was now in trouble so we break to help him and both of us get on his 6... the leader fires and sends tracers screaming past him... and 2 pings.. but nowhere near vitals.. it was enough to have him panic and break strait up the one he had been tailing brakes up and catches him in the top of the loop and gets a nice 6 position... he opened up with his cannons and caught partialy on the others belly... BOOM! we had just passed under him and we could feel the small shock wave from the explosion. both of us (me and the leader) was out or ammo and almost out of fuel. the other unit lost one fighter but managed to get out otherwise un scraped... the one they lost was a new guy they had been trainng and got exsited. we could see what was left of his plane... a little of the tail and the left wing and the engine was noticable from passing over but the rest was in some smoking brush... we made a radio call to a near by grunt unit to check the wrekage in the area... and we headed off back to base... the other unit staid with us, as they had only been on patrol and nothing better to do. we landed well shaken and we said our thanks one last time to the other fighters as they headed home themselves. we get back and our friend is still waiting for an explaination of what took us so long... he didnt believe a word of it and said we must have landed at the town near by to get a drink at teh local pub. the next day he was proved wrong as the other unit showed up for a joint patrol.. and they filled him in on the whole thing   it was nice timing as they just rolled out some new "test" planes and after the command heard about what happend put me and the leader into the planes.

hmm I like the idea  

[Hans]

I would like to point out in all my posts I suggested that super planes be one time things.

Only after much work can you take out a super plane for a flight.  Even if that flight were stunningly successfull, you will eventually run out of fuel and need to return to base.  Once you exit the plane....thats it.  You need to start all over again.

Also, flying without a plan gives out points.  Flying with multiple people on a mission will grant a few more points as a bonus, but the majority of your score still comes from killing the enemy.

Hans.

[This message has been edited by Hans (edited 10-17-1999).]

[jmccaul]

Hans  all your ideas are reasonable one and may or may not work but none of them do the same things as ready rooms which physically group people together in a formation which is ready to go people only have to say yes I'll fly with the rest of you but you retain the freedom you already have if you want with perhaps the minor inconvenience of a 5 minute wait or taking off from another field. Also many people have asked for a delay before re spawning and this would appease those to some extent too.

  Although you personally wouldn't wait in ready rooms do you not agree it would be useful for other pilots and benefit the arena in the long run.

P.S. This is my attempt to convince you personally Hans   Do I have a convert?

P.P.S i'm not ignoring the rest of you