Steve, your icon request has been implemented

[nopoop]

Originally posted by SlapShot
I don' think you get it.

The old AH I icons system put those who can see well and those who can't on a level playing field when it came to judging closure/separation.

When HT introduced the new icon system, those who don't see well (like me) were shackled when it came to judging closure/separation. The addition of the + - indicator has now put us back on a level playing field

I don't buy that slap, not for a minute. In the first place the vast majority of people now a days where glasses to correct vision. I have a pair of thickstirs on myself when playing. It's not about "seeing" at all that bothers people. That's an excuse. It's about rapid information delivery.

With the beta system one IMPORTANT factor was added to the icon system. No longer was there instantanous information delivery. You had to actually take more than an instant view to judge closure. You'd have to keep checking and catch that distance icon change. MUCH more realistic while not "handycapping" ANYONE. Those icons are still there, but no longer give immediate information. I like that alot.

To say a + - indicator levels the playing field it  just isn't true. The playing field is as level as it always was. The +- just makes it "easier"

It's taking away a very good idea. I'm with deSelys on this one.

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by nopoop
I don't buy that slap, not for a minute. In the first place the vast majority of people now a days where glasses to correct vision. I have a pair of thickstirs on myself when playing. It's not about "seeing" at all that bothers people. That's an excuse. It's about rapid information delivery.

With the beta system one IMPORTANT factor was added to the icon system. No longer was there instantanous information delivery. You had to actually take more than an instant view to judge closure. You'd have to keep checking and catch that distance icon change. MUCH more realistic while not "handycapping" ANYONE. Those icons are still there, but no longer give immediate information. I like that alot.

To say a + - indicator levels the playing field it  just isn't true. The playing field is as level as it always was. The +- just makes it "easier"

It's taking away a very good idea. I'm with deSelys on this one.

poop ... I am not asking you to buy, nor do I care if you buy it.

I am telling you what it is from my viewpoint. Saying that "you don't buy that" is in essence calling me a liar which is something that is not part of my character. I am not lying, nor making this up to just argue ... I am not trolling here. I feel strong about this and try to prove my point(s) in a calm tone, but I can guarantee you that I speak facts, and only from where I sit. I'm not speaking for you, or others and won't pretent to.

I too wear glasses (obviously). With the AH I icon system, I was able to distiguish closure or separation very quickly by viewing the numbers. When that was gone (in AH II), I can't tell you how many times I thought that I was chasing, only to find out that I truly was closing and the con was by me and on me before I could react. This was never the case in AH I ... trust me on it.

Before the +/- indicator was introduced I never said a word (whine) about it and was readly to deal with it as best I could, but since HT had the insight as to add these indicators, the game, enjoyment-wise, is back to where it was in AH I for me and I don't want to lose it.

To say a + - indicator levels the playing field it  just isn't true. The playing field is as level as it always was. The +- just makes it "easier"

That is such bollocks ... I can't believe that you said that.

The AH I icon system made things much easier to determine closure/separation than what we have now, even with addition the +/- indicator. One still has to pay attention to the yardage indicator to guesstimate speed and the countdown/up that we have now is not as easy as it was in AH I. With that in mind, the playing field that we have now, with this icon system is NOT the same as it always was ... nowhere near it.

I am not looking for easier ... never have ... never will. I am looking for enjoyment and before this +/- indicator, it was more frustration than enjoyment.

I'm with deSelys on this one.

First time I have ever seen you with a selfish attitude.

Think about this REAL hard.

The addition of the +/- indicator makes this game that much more enjoyable and viable for some and really, in the grand schema of AH, doesn't hinder/hamper the enjoyment for those with good eyesight.

The ones who are fighting this are fighting it for the cause of "realism" and to hell with the rest of ya. I don't like it where it could go and choose to speak up about it.

I guess this +/- indicator would really make or break this game for you "realism" fanatics in the larger grander scale of things.

Truly unbelievable.

[nopoop]

Saying that "you don't buy that" is in essence calling me a liar

Come on Slap, you know me, I just don't buy the premise of your arguement. It isn't a "vision" thing it all. That's where your premise falls short.

I was able to distiguish closure or separation very quickly by viewing the numbers

Of course you could, so could everybody. It has nothing to do with vision, With the beta system, you couldn't. Neither could anyone else. That's what I liked, no "instant" information, you had to watch, and watch close. If anything, it was an equalizer between those like Levi for example, who can process mulitple cons, their angles and closure rate in an instant AND REMEMBER IT ALL and duffers like myself

the playing field that we have now, with this icon system is NOT the same as it always was ... nowhere near it.

I agree, but I liked it much more without the + -

First time I have ever seen you with a selfish attitude

Jeez Slap, I disagree with you vision premise, I enjoyed the beta icons, I'm not a realist, I just found them more enjoyable. And gave you the reasons that I enjoyed them.

It's not a game breaker, I'm not a fanatic, you now me better. I disagree with the vision premise and now your going to put me in a box ???

WHASSSUP WIT DAT ??

[Furious]

I also prefer the none +/- system.  

Originally I thought the new system was great, then the last few nights I noticed that I could scan the sky with about 10-20 cons and know instantly who coming/going, gaining/dropping away.  

Instantly. That seems rather cheezy to me.

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by nopoop
Saying that "you don't buy that" is in essence calling me a liar

Come on Slap, you know me, I just don't buy the premise of your arguement. It isn't a "vision" thing it all. That's where your premise falls short.

I was able to distiguish closure or separation very quickly by viewing the numbers

Of course you could, so could everybody. It has nothing to do with vision, With the beta system, you couldn't. Neither could anyone else. That's what I liked, no "instant" information, you had to watch, and watch close. If anything, it was an equalizer between those like Levi for example, who can process mulitple cons, their angles and closure rate in an instant AND REMEMBER IT ALL and duffers like myself

the playing field that we have now, with this icon system is NOT the same as it always was ... nowhere near it.

I agree, but I liked it much more without the + -

First time I have ever seen you with a selfish attitude

Jeez Slap, I disagree with you vision premise, I enjoyed the beta icons, I'm not a realist, I just found them more enjoyable. And gave you the reasons that I enjoyed them.

It's not a game breaker, I'm not a fanatic, you now me better. I disagree with the vision premise and now your going to put me in a box ???

WHASSSUP WIT DAT ??

My apologies for making the wrong assumptions then.

For me poop .. it is a vision thing ... simple as that ... no fluff attached and why you keep telling me it's not, is beyond me.

Of course you could, so could everybody.

Well well ... all things equal at that point. Such was not the case with the intial Beta icons.

It has nothing to do with vision, With the beta system, you couldn't. Neither could anyone else.

Not from what I have read ... most have said that they can tell whether there is closure or separation by seeing the change in the plane shape (getting larger or smaller). That is not something that I was picking up on very easily in AH II. Not so bad in AH I from where I sat. AH I was much more clearer and defined than what I am experiencing in AH II.

That's what I liked, no "instant" information, you had to watch, and watch close. If anything, it was an equalizer between those like Levi for example, who can process mulitple cons, their angles and closure rate in an instant AND REMEMBER IT ALL and duffers like myself

I did watch and watch close ... can you say HEADACHE and confusion !!!

Leave Levi out of this ... there is no equalizer, for the likes of us, that will help. I swear he is the "DareDevil". He has senses that are not from this planet ...

Jeez Slap, I disagree with you vision premise, I enjoyed the beta icons, I'm not a realist, I just found them more enjoyable. And gave you the reasons that I enjoyed them.

Glad you enjoyed them .. I didn't ... I am enjoying them now.

It's not a game breaker, I'm not a fanatic, you now me better. I disagree with the vision premise and now your going to put me in a box ???

WHASSSUP WIT DAT ??

Again ... apologies for my assumptions. I was taken back by your response and its thrust, as I interpreted it.

<> poop

I am done with this conversation. I am attacking people that I like and thats going over the edge for me.

I believe that I made my point(s) and hopefully HT and the "Crew" has read them, and agree with them.

If not, so be it. I will not whine, nor threaten to quit, I will just deal with it.

[nopoop]

...makes a note to put Slap back on the Christmas card list.

[OIO]

slapshot, id suggest you play WW2OL just to see the icon system on aircraft (nay pay attention to the bogus fm or combat in it.. just take a look at the icons while in the air).


You will see what i mean when i say ww2ol icon system proves it.