Author Topic: The VOSS CONSPIRACY... fascinating new book (Read 113217 times)

Ripsnort · « **Reply #30 on:** July 13, 2004, 10:24:24 AM »

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Originally posted by midnight Target
Interesting side your coming down on there Rip.

Seems to be at odds with your on line persona.

(edit - wasn't there another Voss? ASASIN?)

I'm not really taking sides on the issue. I just find it appalling that people judge an entire squadrons reputation for having one bad egg in the squad. Seriously, if you judge an entire squad by the past actions of one pilot, you're hurting more.

One other thing I'd like to mention, those who were duped by a used car salesman usually are very angry to begin with. The term "Sucker" comes to mind.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #31 on:** July 13, 2004, 10:26:41 AM »

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Originally posted by Edbert MOL
Maybe I'm in the minority with this thought, but a man is often judged (rightly so) by the company he keeps. My grandpa always told me that one of the most important things in life is choosing your friends wisely. It is my beleif that a virtual squadron IN A GAME is nothing more than the sum of it's parts. If one of those parts is rotten then it reflects negatively on the whole group. If any member of the MOL was found to be guilty of cheating, or vulching a shade account, or being Voss he would be booted just like Shane was when he began embarrasing the squad with his mouth (typing) on channel 1.

Citabria, how do you KNOW that metaron=voss=paul? I seriously want to know, because those are pretty serious allegations and should not be taken lightly.

So Cavalear, Swoop, and a few other VMF-323 squaddies joined the Hornets because of about 30 other guys *we* enjoy flying with...you're saying that because Voss is on the squad that *our* reputation in your eyes is now discolored? You're hurting Edbert.

ghostdancer · « **Reply #32 on:** July 13, 2004, 10:32:13 AM »

Not judging a whole squad by one person. But just saying there will be a definite cooling of relatonships usually toward a group when an individual is percieved to really step over the line and take advantage of others.

Basically the same thing holds true on an even larger scale. Look at what people who despise Bush think or paint all Republicans. And look at people who despise Clinton / Kerry think or paint all democrats.

So yes, its sad / appalling but it is also normal something everyone indulges in to an extent somewhere in there life. So its not suprising that for some you have the same thing here of developing a cool attitude toward a group because of one person who they believe really, really overstep the bounds and harmed other people or took advantage of other people. Does it say anything about the others in the groups except they tolerate the one that people have hard feelings for .. that is debatable and to some extent pointless. Except that is they way we behave in our society. Some people believe that by associating with a person that it can be percieved as sanctioning their conduct.

In this case it not a matter of being obnoxious or just not liking somebody but in the case of Voss of being more than just that. Its the perception that the person is untrust worthy and since they have ripped people off are capable of doing it again or trying to do it again to others.

And yes, when people get ripped off and are angry or percieve others have been severely injured or taken advantage in some way they do tend to hold a grudge. Heck early testament was an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth and still a lot of people hold to that philosophy.

gofaster · « **Reply #33 on:** July 13, 2004, 10:38:12 AM »

I don't like the 13th TAS anyway; the bunch of P-51D base-porking dweebs!

lazs2 · « **Reply #34 on:** July 13, 2004, 10:38:49 AM »

The BK's are pretty loose but we sure as hell wouldn't have voss/metavoss in our squad.

We have turned down people in the past... basicly... if someone in the squad doesn't like em.... they don't get in.

I most dislike meta voss because he is so unrepentant. Someone that unrepentant is simply waiting for things to die down for his next scam. With him, I think it is important to bring this up every 6 months or so.

This was really over the top stuff and the person who was the subject of it is still around and not admitting any wrongdoing.

lazs

SirLoin · « **Reply #35 on:** July 13, 2004, 10:39:37 AM »

I think you should take a step back GD..Our squad is just fine thnx.

gofaster · « **Reply #36 on:** July 13, 2004, 10:41:00 AM »

Don't worry, Rip. Their inability to understand is also a result of their different belief system, and the influence of Satan's subtle powers on them.

Overlag · « **Reply #37 on:** July 13, 2004, 10:47:04 AM »

sigh... really taking this ott arnt we

as if fester has NEVER done anything wrong....

Pongo · « **Reply #38 on:** July 13, 2004, 10:49:59 AM »

You left out the part where he said that AH was developed in part with copyrighted material from TAS. He said that right on this board.
And you left out the whole part about Iron Man...Voss's wingman from the gulf.

If anyone has never read this stuff..the original source posts (which were linked here at one point) are fascinating.

ghostdancer · « **Reply #39 on:** July 13, 2004, 10:52:33 AM »

Sirloin .. what do you mean take a step back?

None of my posts in this thread said anything about what I believe about your squad but was explaining why some other people might be reacting negatively because of one person.

Say you have Kenneth Lay in the Nightmares for example and people found about that. Some won't care others would since they saw how he and Enron did (or was percieved to do) to the residents of California and how most of the employees (mid-level and lower) destroyed the savings invested through several Enron plans.

Now you would have some who say .. I could care less who Kenneth Lay is in real life. You would have others who do care and see by associating with him as some sort of sanction since in their experience being part of a squad is a very social experience (like being part of a fraternity or other tightly knit organization) where it can at time transend just playing and be percieved as friendship. Not all pilots share this view .. many are lone wolfs or in large squads you have many smaller clicks. But basically you would go through a stage where the squad decides what they would do or not do .. in the case of 13th TAS they removed him. Others here stated they would do the same. Doesn't mean its right or wrong .. just what they would do in that situation.

Then you would have others in the larger community form opinions and decide whether they care, whether they would not be as friendly (cooling of attitudes), or go eye for eye tooth for tooth.

But as I said there are those like Edbert and Laz that see association as sanctioning. Which explains the cool of attitudes they have. Others more intimately involved in the matters are still of an eye for eye attitude.

Many others can care less .. but none of this should be suprising since the catalyst is supposedly a person that went beyond obnoxious and in the eyes of several really crossed the line.

As to my own beliefs .. haven't really stated them here. But just started by telling Icer not to worry nobody really associates Voss with 13th TAS of AW/WB/AH days anymore.

After that just having a discussion of why people and think and behave they do.

I don't think I crossed the line and have not posted that you should take any particular action. I even stated that I find the 418th to be good challenge when run into .. and I think Ripsnort and Cav probably will state that they know I respect them.

lazs2 · « **Reply #40 on:** July 13, 2004, 10:55:48 AM »

yep... the whole saga is just so over the top unbelievable that you can't help but despise the man in his total dishonesty...

since he is not the least repentant then I would say that a sqaud that embraces and defends him is pretty strange and comprised of pretty strange folk.

I have talked to 13th guys and when they found out about voss they were disgusted and repeled. A normal reaction... none of them would knowingly have anything to do with an unrepentant voss in my opinion from talking to them.

lazs

Ripsnort · « **Reply #41 on:** July 13, 2004, 10:59:41 AM »

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Originally posted by lazs2
since he is not the least repentant then I would say that a sqaud that embraces and defends him is pretty strange and comprised of pretty strange folk.

lazs

Way to generalize, there Lazs!

Edbert · « **Reply #42 on:** July 13, 2004, 11:03:03 AM »

I said above that I know many of the Hornets, I've flown with and against many of them, met some of them at cons, and have ALWAYS had a high opinion of them as players. It is for that reason alone that I am suprised to see such a snake-of-a-man as Voss in their midst. He does not make them bad people, just casts a shadow is all. Everyone here has the right to join a squad with whomever will take them. Every squad has the right to accpet Voss into their midst. Some choose the high ground, some don't care (and thats FINE with me too, really). But for me and mine, we excise any cancers we find in our midst.

lazs2 · « **Reply #43 on:** July 13, 2004, 11:11:13 AM »

agree with edbert..

saying that.. I also feel that any hornets that don't know the whole voss metavoss saga are not responsible. Any that know who the guy was and STILL is and choose to associate with him...

well... What are we suppossed to think?

lazs

SirLoin · « **Reply #44 on:** July 13, 2004, 11:18:08 AM »

In response to Edbert...We let MetaTron join our squad(Didn't know he was Voss)..He has been a fine squaddie and fun to fly with.

I am outta this flame thread.