Author Topic: Allah is Greatest  (Read 3016 times)

Offline Shuckins

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3412
Allah is Greatest
« Reply #60 on: July 23, 2004, 07:00:14 PM »
Allah was worshipped by Bedouin in and around Mecca before Muhammad's day, along with 360 other, lesser deities.  Originally he was a moon god who had three daughters who were also gods.  There is some evidence to suggest his followers may have practiced human sacrifice.

Muhammad created Islam as a religion designed from the outset to unite the feuding Arab tribes into a single political force.  The name "Allah" was retained for his deity to placate many of the religious leaders in Mecca who had made money from the sale of idols and pilgrimages to the Ka'aba, which had been called the Rock of Allah long before Muhammad's day.

Allah retained some of his earlier attributes, but others were discarded.  The deity that emerged, describe as merciful and compassionate, apparently retained a delight in blood.  Jihad was the central theme of early Islamic faith.  A religious militancy developed during Muhammad's life and played a prominent part in the faith for a thousand years.

Modern Muslims relate with great fervency the horrors of the Crusades, which lasted for 200 years.  Since the Reformation the Christian World, with it's militant fires rapidly diminishing, has apologized for the the Crusades.  However, one never hears Muslims apologizing for a thousand years of warfare or the subjugations of Spain, Greece, Romania, Bulgaria, Albania, Yugoslavia, Armenia, much of southern Russia, and northern and western Africa.

Central to these wars of jihad was a hatred of pagans and a thinly veiled hostility for Christians and Jews.  A westerner who takes the time to read the Koran is often shocked to find so much of its text deprecating and belittling the Jews.  While Jews of the Diaspora fared better under Muslim rule than they did in Europe during the Middle Ages, they were, nonetheless, second-class citizens whose rights were severely restricted and who could not hold important government or military posts.

This bigotry was fanned into new flame after World War II, when Jewish refugees began to arrive in the Palestinian Mandate.  They were preceded by ex-Nazi's fleeing the retribution of the Allied Powers.  These thugs were given aid and comfort by militant Arab leaders such as the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, a man who was instrumental in forming the policies of later leaders such as Muammar Khadafy, Saddam Hussein, and Gamal Nasser.  Before their arrival, Jewish immigrants had been living in Palestine peacefully with native Muslims.  When the British tried to promote the implementation of the Balfour Declaration, which would have created two new states out of the Mandate, surrounding Arab states, agitated by the Grand Mufti and other militants, threatened military action against any Jewish nation that emerged.

In 1948 the surrounding Muslim countries declared war against the newly created state of Israel.  Of course, if one reads their histories of those events, one would get the impression that a nation of a few thousand people with only a handful of weapons, declared war on neighboring countries with populations numbering in the tens of millions.

That has been the pattern of Islamic aggression for a thousand years.  Many Muslims are peace-loving of course.  Nonetheless, they often turn a blind eye to the activities of their religious militants who they believe are carrying out one of the central tenets of their faith...the conversion of the world to the true faith, preferably by persuasion, but by force if necessary.

Offline demaw1

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 652
Allah is Greatest
« Reply #61 on: July 23, 2004, 07:25:58 PM »
Shuckins re : your post
  good lesson,almost all right but then again you know how the left is on history.I didnt have the will to write all that nor could I have done nearly so well.

 Phookat re:new testament written by? muslims who do not think this way.


    Oh boy this is going to get me mocked but what the hell.
   The new testament was written by certain chosen men ,whose hand was directed by the Holy Spirit. That is why the bible has not changed in meaning from day one. The dead sea scrolls read the same as todays bible with a little difference because of langage.

   There are very few  muslims that do not believe all other gods are not idols.Allah is only God to them and the judeo/christian God is not allah.

Offline Shuckins

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3412
Allah is Greatest
« Reply #62 on: July 23, 2004, 07:35:44 PM »
demaw,

Thank you.  I've read large portions of an English translation of the Koran.  It isn't nearly as prosaic as the King James version of the Bible.  Much of the suras in it consist of simple retellings of tales from the Torah, the first five books of the Old Testament.  Muhammad attempted to paint the Jews as the children of Abraham who failed in their duty to Allah, and the Arabs are portrayed as the faithful children.  Therefore, Muslims are the true inheritors of the "Covenant" made between Jehovah and the descendants of Abraham.

I started writing the first post to point out that the origins of Jehovah and Allah are different and that they are two entirely different deities.  Just got a little carried away I guess.

Offline demaw1

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 652
Allah is Greatest
« Reply #63 on: July 23, 2004, 07:56:34 PM »
Shuckins re: crusades

 I think I might be able to find some help from you on crusades.
 From some of my studies I believe the crusades came about because the arabs of the time were at the gates of Constantinople[former name of Istanbul] .At the time Constantinople was considered the gateway to trade etc? If the arabs took Constantinople with military force would it not have been a disaster for the known world? Constantinople was greek at the time?
 This does not excuse what they did to the jews but the world needs to know it was done in the name of Jesus it was not ..of Jesus.  They could have done it in the name of demaw wouldnt have been any different..This would take to much time to answer so dont worry about it lol.Ill find what I am looking for.

Offline Holden McGroin

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8591
Allah is Greatest
« Reply #64 on: July 23, 2004, 07:59:51 PM »
The Hebew word "Elohim" is the plural of "Elowah", which is derived from the Aramaic word "Alaha", or "Elahh"; the same as the Arabic word "Allah" on pronunciation.

The Christian God, the Hebrew God, and the Islamic God are one and the same, and He demanded that Abraham sacrifice his only son as a test of faith.

As Ishmael was born to Abrahams handmaiden Hagar before the Issac was born to Sarah, Muslims believe that Abraham's "only son" is Ishmael as when Issac was born Abraham no longer had an "only son".  

The Hebrew belief is that Issac was born to Abraham's wife Sarah and because he was Abraham's only legitimate son, Issac was the intended sacrifice.

This is the branching of the same tree to two different theologies.  The Hebrew branch again split into two distinct theologies with the birth of Christ.
Holden McGroin LLC makes every effort to provide accurate and complete information. Since humor, irony, and keen insight may be foreign to some readers, no warranty, expressed or implied is offered. Re-writing this disclaimer cost me big bucks at the lawyer’s office!

Offline phookat

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 629
Allah is Greatest
« Reply #65 on: July 23, 2004, 08:03:09 PM »
Shuckins--

Thanks for the informative post.  I stand corrected.

However, I would say that the modern interpretation of the word "Allah" is "The Universal Lord God."

Demaw--  I would never mock your beliefs.  But you should extend the same courtesy to Muslims.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2004, 08:05:40 PM by phookat »

Offline Shuckins

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3412
Allah is Greatest
« Reply #66 on: July 23, 2004, 08:22:01 PM »
demaw,

The Emperor of Constantinople (Byzantium), after his forces lost the battle of Manzikert and other battles to the Muslims, called on the Christian west to send military aid to stem the Islamic tide.

Pope Urban II made some speeches in France, if memory serves, that were the start of the crusades.  A monk named Peter the Hermit further inflamed the populations of western Christians.  In the event, a number of large groups set out for the Holy Land the following year (1097 a.d.).  The first was the People's Crusade, led by Peter the Hermit, I believe.  Composed of illiterate peasants, it failed utterly.  The second group, composed mainly of French knights and noblemen, and led by Bohemund and Count Baldwin, crossed into Asia Minor, won several battles, and succeeded in capturing Jerusalem after a bloody and murderous siege.  Muslims and Jews were slaughtered mercilessly when the walls were breached.

Thereupon most of the knights of the First Crusade returned to Europe.  A small number remained to establish a number of small kingdoms on the eastern shores of the Mediterranean.  The Kingdom of Jerusalem was known to the French as Outremer, the Kingdom across the Sea.  The knights of these kingdoms quickly became acclimated to their new surroundings, and as the decades passed, adopted the dress and mannerisms of their Muslim neighbors.  They lived in relative peace with them until a rogue Frankish nobleman took military forces into the Levant (the Muslim homeland, i.e. the birthplace of Islam) which no infidel was permitted to enter.  Thereupon Saladin the Great of Egypt vowed to drive them from Palestine...and that is exactly what he did.

Christian hatred of the Jews during this Medieval Period traced its beginnings to the Jewish uprising against Roman rule in 72 a.d.  The Roman forces put down this revolt bloodily, and some years later, after a second revolt, began the process of scattering the Jews across the empire to prevent similar events from occurring in the future.  The Romans had an especial hatred for the Jews because they refused to show respect for the Roman gods or tolerate the placement of images of the Emperor in Israel.  Because of this bloody suppression of the Jews, a small Jewish sect adopted policies that attempted to distance their association with the main body of Judaism.  They adopted the hostile attitudes of the Romans toward the Jews and rapidly discarded Jewish rituals.  

This sect was, of course, Christianity.  That distancing from Judaism and hostility towards it migrated across Europe and survived, largely intact, until the time of the Protestant Reformation.  Since that time, the hatred of the Jews as the money-lenders or "userer" of Europe and the "murderers" of Christ has ebbed, slowly but surely.  Many Protestants and Catholics are now re-embracing their Jewish roots and publicly recognizing the relationship between the two faiths.

Islam has gone through no such transformation.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2004, 08:25:38 PM by Shuckins »

Offline demaw1

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 652
Allah is Greatest
« Reply #67 on: July 23, 2004, 08:25:33 PM »
phookat re: mock

 I hope I dont mock anyones belief,but I do judge them and totally reject them.I hope I would have the character to also have done the same if I lived at the time of the crusades,not reject their God but their deeds to the jews.

 I cannot accept a religion that teaches babies to kill babies.To me that is the same as human sac.Do I say wipe them from the face of the earth,no I would then be like them.I do say kill as many as it takes to stop them for awhile,as thru out history this is all that has stopped them.

Offline Shuckins

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3412
Allah is Greatest
« Reply #68 on: July 23, 2004, 08:36:16 PM »
phookat,

I ran across a site on google earlier today that discusses the history of the name Allah.  I believe I was looking for a "History of Allah" in order to refresh my memory about the reference to him being a moon god.  Christian and Jewish theologians reject the Muslim claim that the word Allah is in any way related to the names of God in the Old Testament.  It didn't take me long to find the information if you care to look for it yourself...just can't remember the name of the site.

Regards, Shuckins/Leggern

Offline demaw1

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 652
Allah is Greatest
« Reply #69 on: July 23, 2004, 08:48:34 PM »
Shuckins re: crusades

 Thank you so much I know it took a lot of effort.Do you know of a book/s  that I can read to educate myself on this subject?
 thanks.

Offline phookat

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 629
Allah is Greatest
« Reply #70 on: July 23, 2004, 08:51:11 PM »
Demaw--  The vast majority of Muslims agrees with you.

Shuckins-- Isn't it fair to say, though, that despite the origins of the word, the current meaning of Allah is not Moon God or whatever, but rather The Universal Supreme Being?  That is how Muslims use the word today, no?

Offline Shuckins

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3412
Allah is Greatest
« Reply #71 on: July 23, 2004, 08:53:18 PM »
I think the earliest translations meant "the god."  The actual meaning has undoubtedly morphed over the centuries to make it more palatable to those opposed, on principles of faith, to Islam.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2004, 08:58:36 PM by Shuckins »

Offline Shuckins

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3412
Allah is Greatest
« Reply #72 on: July 23, 2004, 09:09:51 PM »
demaw,

I recommend the following works for information on the Crusades:

The Crusades; an excellent two volume work by author Regine Pernoud.

Genghis Khan and The Crusades:  Iron Men and Saints and The Crusades:  The Flame of Islam .  All three are works by Harold Lamb.  Of especial interest is the work on Genghis Khan, which details the destruction of the Kharesmian Turks, the most powerful force in Islam, by the Mongols, circa 1200 a.d.

Lastly, Thomas B. Costain's The Conquering Family , an early history of the British Royal Family beginning with William the Conqueror and ending with the reign of King John II.  It gives a fairly good account of Richard the Lionheart's role in the Third Crusade.

Regards, Shuckins/Leggern

Offline hawker238

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1563
Allah is Greatest
« Reply #73 on: July 23, 2004, 10:31:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by demaw1
To the muslim any one that does not believe in allah is an infidel worthy only of death,man woman and child.


What bloodthirsty intolerance...... :rolleyes:

Offline demaw1

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 652
Allah is Greatest
« Reply #74 on: July 23, 2004, 10:45:51 PM »
shuckins,thanks for your time ,lol I feel like I died and went to heaven.I ll find these book thanks again