Is Kerry a hero?

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by Thrawn
You are just jealous because Kerry is going to become the President of the United States.

No, to be honest I am terrified of that. The consequences for most of the western world would be disasterous. Which is why it is so very important that he loses.

[Thrawn]

No!

The consequences for most of the western world would be disasterous if Bush wins.  That is why it is so very important that he doesn't.  

...wow this is easy.

[Hortlund]

I said it first. You lose.

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by Martlet
Deferment

Kerry's deferment request is common knowledge.  The fact that you don't know something about him that was as publicized as that shows you should get your news from someplace other than moveon.org.  How can you support a candidate you don't have even basic information about on a topic you're discussing?

Martlet, I don't want to put words in your mouth here.
1) Is this really common knowledge? I mean that article quotes:

[A senior Republican strategist, who asked not to be named, said: "I've not heard this before. This undercuts Kerry's complaints about Bush and it continues to pose questions as to his credibility among ordinary Vietnam veterans."]
if it was so common as you claim, I'd think the "senior Republican strategist" would of known by it.

I'm not saying that Kerry didn't apply for a deferment as I just don't know. Do you have any other links from a more common source that would have a bit more detail?

2) Are you inferring that because Kerry (might have) requested a one year deferment, that he was trying to skirt out of his duty?
If so, why on earth would he enlist in the Navy at a time of warfare and check off that he was willing to go to a warzone? kind of stupid if you ask me. He should of done the smart thing and volunteered for the National Guard and checked off that he wasn't willing to go to Vietnam. My father was in the Navy and he didn't volunteer for which I'm glad.

(BTW, for the record, Bush, Cheney, Clinton, etc., did the right thing in trying to avoid the war. It wasn't one of the "good" ones. It was a lost cause. Clueless politicians (Democrat and Republican) got us in a no win situation there. Oh, we won the battles if we're talking body count, but we lost the war because we didn't have a clear objective. Over 2 million Vietnamese lost their lives, over 50 thousand of our own lost theirs. What a terrible waste. IMHO)

[Edbert]

Originally posted by SaburoS
Funny that you claim that Kerry is 'Flip, flopping' here. Where does he flip, flop?

I thought it obvious...

flip = the photos were taken without permission and leaked as a dirty (I could hear the "vast right wing conpiracy" stuff) republican trick.

flop = the photos were taken upon request and their release was expedited by his own campign staffers.

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by Hortlund
*And yet once again, Thrawn curses his luck for being born in Canada instead of the US...thus robbing him of any possible way of voting for Kerry, his master and guiding star.

*And yet once again, Hortlund curses his luck for being born in Sweden instead of the US...thus robbing him of any possible way of voting for Bush, his master and guiding star. He's missing out on dating Ann Coulter, too.

All kidding aside...
Hortlund, you travel to the US often? If so, what parts did you visit and what did you think of the people and the places?
If not, do you plan to?

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by Edbert MOL
I thought it obvious...

flip = the photos were taken without permission and leaked as a dirty (I could hear the "vast right wing conpiracy" stuff) republican trick.

flop = the photos were taken upon request and their release was expedited by his own campign staffers.

Ahh that's what you saw in it. Kind of reaching, don't you think?
You're blaming Kerry directly here on a theory of yours?
It doesn't make sense why the Dems would do this. Even if what you think happened, how would the Democrats benefit here?
LOL, I mean these photos actually do make Kerry look like a oompa loompa. NOT a benefit to his election. Kind of reminds me of Dukakis looking like a goofy dork when he was riding that M1 tank for a photo op.

[midnight Target]

Originally posted by Hortlund
*And yet once again, Thrawn curses his luck for being born in Canada instead of the US...thus robbing him of any possible way of voting for Kerry, his master and guiding star.

Who are you voting for Hortlund?

[Edbert]

Originally posted by SaburoS
Ahh that's what you saw in it. Kind of reaching, don't you think?
You're blaming Kerry directly here on a theory of yours?

Not reaching at all, read the links. Both contradictory positions were formally taken by his campaign within a day or two of each other. The kerry campaign is arguing with itself for crying out loud.

[SOB]

Originally posted by midnight Target
Who are you voting for Hortlund?

hehe

[Martlet]

Originally posted by SaburoS
Martlet, I don't want to put words in your mouth here.
1) Is this really common knowledge? I mean that article quotes:

[A senior Republican strategist, who asked not to be named, said: "I've not heard this before. This undercuts Kerry's complaints about Bush and it continues to pose questions as to his credibility among ordinary Vietnam veterans."]
if it was so common as you claim, I'd think the "senior Republican strategist" would of known by it.

I'm not saying that Kerry didn't apply for a deferment as I just don't know. Do you have any other links from a more common source that would have a bit more detail?

2) Are you inferring that because Kerry (might have) requested a one year deferment, that he was trying to skirt out of his duty?
If so, why on earth would he enlist in the Navy at a time of warfare and check off that he was willing to go to a warzone? kind of stupid if you ask me. He should of done the smart thing and volunteered for the National Guard and checked off that he wasn't willing to go to Vietnam. My father was in the Navy and he didn't volunteer for which I'm glad.

(BTW, for the record, Bush, Cheney, Clinton, etc., did the right thing in trying to avoid the war. It wasn't one of the "good" ones. It was a lost cause. Clueless politicians (Democrat and Republican) got us in a no win situation there. Oh, we won the battles if we're talking body count, but we lost the war because we didn't have a clear objective. Over 2 million Vietnamese lost their lives, over 50 thousand of our own lost theirs. What a terrible waste. IMHO)

1.  Do your own search for "kerry deferment" then.  6200 links to choose from.

2.  Dunno.  Maybe because since his deferment was denied, he was going to get drafted.  Joining the Navy is far better than being a grunt in country.

According to Front Page  and others when Kerry applied for swift boat duty, they were primarily used as ferries.  Only after he applied were they used for combat.  Then 4 months after that happens he's gone.

[Martlet]

Originally posted by midnight Target
Not true. If by shipmates you mean Kerry's crew.

You mean these  guys?

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by Martlet
1.  Do your own search for "kerry deferment" then.  6200 links to choose from.

2.  Dunno.  Maybe because since his deferment was denied, he was going to get drafted.  Joining the Navy is far better than being a grunt in country.

According to Front Page  and others when Kerry applied for swift boat duty, they were primarily used as ferries.  Only after he applied were they used for combat.  Then 4 months after that happens he's gone.

1) Figured since you said it was common knowledge, why not link a more common, mainstream source?

2) Why on earth would he indicate that he was willing to serve in Vietnam then? If he was afraid of combat, he should have chosen the Air National Guard, and also indicate that he wasn't willing to serve in Vietnam. His character back then of 'trying to avoid the war' is not the same as that of rescuing a fellow soldier in combat.

[anonymous]

he served in combat zone hes a combat veteran. its what he did after he got home that disgusts some including myself. lied in govt hearing and introduced others to lie in govt hearing. threw someone else medals in protest thats plain wrong you wear a medal earned in combat you wear it not for yourself but for others in military as well. and bush was full qualified fighter pilot wasnt he? not an easy job title to earn regardless of him screwing up reserve attendance. i heard he put in to fly in vn but program made unavailable to guys flying his aircraft after he put in request with buddy. anyone know if this is true?

[Martlet]

Originally posted by SaburoS
1) Figured since you said it was common knowledge, why not link a more common, mainstream source?

2) Why on earth would he indicate that he was willing to serve in Vietnam then? If he was afraid of combat, he should have chosen the Air National Guard, and also indicate that he wasn't willing to serve in Vietnam. His character back then of 'trying to avoid the war' is not the same as that of rescuing a fellow soldier in combat.

1.  You discredited my source, I told you where you can find one you are happy with.  My job isn't to keep throwing up sources until your hair tingles.  There were 6200 to choose from.  Knock yourself out.

2.  I don't know.  Neither do you.  All we can do is read what others say and speculate.