Author Topic: None, Zero, Nada... (Read 3974 times)

Martlet · « **Reply #225 on:** August 08, 2004, 12:23:07 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Horn
Try some research before you spew ignorant one.

"John Kerry enlisted in the Navy in 1966. After completing Naval Officer Candidates School, he began his first tour of duty on the USS Gridley, a guided-missile frigate in the waters adjacent to Vietnam."

h

And where did he go in the middle of his Gridley tour?

Learn to read.

Assuming we allow you to consider each duty station a "Vietnam Tour", the reality is even adding both tours together he had less than 6 months anywhere NEAR Vietnam.

Horn · « **Reply #226 on:** August 08, 2004, 12:38:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Martlet
And where did he go in the middle of his Gridley tour?

Learn to read.

Assuming we allow you to consider each duty station a "Vietnam Tour", the reality is even adding both tours together he had less than 6 months anywhere NEAR Vietnam.

What a maroon. If you are going to smear his military service, at least get it right.

"In 1968, John Kerry began his second tour of duty, and volunteered to serve on a Swift Boat, one of the most dangerous assignments of the war."

Do the math. If you can. Not a "duty station" (whatever that is) but a second military tour. Looks to me as if he did 2 years (incl/ school) '66-'68, then after '68, got out early using 1300.39.

h

Crumpp · « **Reply #227 on:** August 08, 2004, 01:23:41 PM »

Big difference between a year spent on a Frigate and a year spent in the Jungle. He spent four months actually putting himself in harms way. During that time he found a loophole and got himself out ASAP. I know men that have cut the bandages off their wounds to rejoin their comrades cause they thought a fight was coming up and they didn't want to be left behind in an Aid Station. They wanted to be with their buddies.

Kerry is tooting his own horn.

Only a couple of Politicians have impressed me with their Military Service. John F. Kennedy, Bob Dole, George Bush Senior, and Senator McClain are a few I respect the quality of their service. Senator McClain for example could draw upon plenty of sevice members who would back his quality of service. Yet his character doesn't allow him to cheapen that service. I don't agree with his politics but I know where he has been and what he has done. I respect him for it.

If Kerry was half the serviceman his campaign claims him to be then the Swift boat veterans would be backing him. Especially if there was any truth to his allegations of criminal conduct during the war.

Crumpp

Horn · « **Reply #228 on:** August 08, 2004, 01:31:13 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Crumpp
Big difference between a year spent on a Frigate and a year spent in the Jungle. He spent four months actually putting himself in harms way. During that time he found a loophole and got himself out ASAP. I know men that have cut the bandages off their wounds to rejoin their comrades cause they thought a fight was coming up and they didn't want to be left behind in an Aid Station. They wanted to be with their buddies.

Not to put too fine a point on it but it was a rare Navy officer that spent a year in the jungle.

I think we can all agree that he's not Rambo.

h

Martlet · « **Reply #229 on:** August 08, 2004, 01:32:13 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Horn
What a maroon. If you are going to smear his military service, at least get it right.

"In 1968, John Kerry began his second tour of duty, and volunteered to serve on a Swift Boat, one of the most dangerous assignments of the war."

Do the math. If you can. Not a "duty station" (whatever that is) but a second military tour. Looks to me as if he did 2 years (incl/ school) '66-'68, then after '68, got out early using 1300.39.

h

How about some links? You obviously no nothing about military service, since you don't even know what a duty station is. I bet the person you are quoting doesn't either. Or it's Kerry himself.

He did less than 6 months total anywhere NEAR Vietnam.

Horn · « **Reply #230 on:** August 08, 2004, 01:45:01 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Martlet
How about some links? You obviously no nothing about military service, since you don't even know what a duty station is. I bet the person you are quoting doesn't either. Or it's Kerry himself.

He did less than 6 months total anywhere NEAR Vietnam.

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/service_timeline.html

He served two military tours. VN was the second one. Here ya go--the FITREPs are there too. Please find data to the contrary--bet you can't--fact remains he spent from '66-70 in the service--I know how that must irk you.

I really don't know anything about military service--I was only a civ. contractor to the Navy/Army for 15 years. You are calling two separate tours a "duty station" perhaps it is you that is clueless? LOL.

h

Martlet · « **Reply #231 on:** August 08, 2004, 01:52:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Horn
http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/service_timeline.html

He served two military tours. VN was the second one. Here ya go--the FITREPs are there too. Please find data to the contrary--bet you can't--fact remains he spent from '66-70 in the service--I know how that must irk you.

I really don't know anything about military service--I was only a civ. contractor to the Navy/Army for 15 years. You are calling two separate tours a "duty station" perhaps it is you that is clueless? LOL.

h

You don't even know what a duty station is. Emptying the porta potty's on base as a civilian really doesn't make you an expert. Yet you quote Hanoi John as a source on himself.

Here's a tip. Actually read this entire thread. Then you'll see that evidence about Hanoi John's fitreps has already been discussed, so you don't need to present the exact same argument that has already been countered.

When you're done with that, go find out what a duty station is. Then you'll realize that while Kerry may have been in the service from 66 to 70, his "two tours" in Nam added up to less than 6 months with only 3 1/2 actually IN Nam.

When you're done with THAT, go read the eye witness accounts of Kerry's cowardice, misrepresentation, and fraudulent self-promotion.

THEN maybe we can continue the conversation, rather than re-hash conversations that have already taken place.

Toad · « **Reply #232 on:** August 08, 2004, 02:29:57 PM »

In the interest of "just the facts, ma'am":

From Kerry's own website:

February 18, 1966 Kerry formally enlists in the U.S. Navy

He goes to various stateside schools as everybody did.

June 8, 1967 Kerry reports to USS Gridley.

February 9, 1968 to June 6, 1968 Gridley spends time in the Gulf of Tonkin off North Vietnam, at Subic Bay in the Philippines and in Wellington, New Zealand. returns to US in June.

July 20, 1968 - November 1968 Kerry attends stateside school.

November 17, 1968 Upon completion of his training, Kerry reports for duty to Coastal Squadron 1, Coastal Division 14, Cam Ranh Bay, South Vietnam.

Early April, 1969 Kerry departs Vietnam.

So what you've got for his "tours" is

4 months on Gridley in the Gulf of Tonkin off North Vietnam, at Subic Bay in the Philippines and in Wellington, New Zealand, returning to US in June.

5 months total from sign-in to sign-out in Swifts.

Enough of this "did not, did so!" There's the facts according to Kerry himself.

Discuss.

dates in red edited to correct timeline by ~ 40 more days on Gridley while ship was stateside. There ya go Horn; good catch. <\edit>

NUKE · « **Reply #233 on:** August 08, 2004, 02:35:18 PM »

All I know is that in about three more months, nobody will be talking about Kerry anymore, so none of this matters much to me.

Horn · « **Reply #234 on:** August 08, 2004, 02:49:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Martlet
You don't even know what a duty station is. Emptying the porta potty's on base as a civilian really doesn't make you an expert. Yet you quote Hanoi John as a source on himself.

Here's a tip. Actually read this entire thread. Then you'll see that evidence about Hanoi John's fitreps has already been discussed, so you don't need to present the exact same argument that has already been countered.

When you're done with that, go find out what a duty station is. Then you'll realize that while Kerry may have been in the service from 66 to 70, his "two tours" in Nam added up to less than 6 months with only 3 1/2 actually IN Nam.

When you're done with THAT, go read the eye witness accounts of Kerry's cowardice, misrepresentation, and fraudulent self-promotion.

THEN maybe we can continue the conversation, rather than re-hash conversations that have already taken place.

You said that he didn't serve two tours. I pointed out that you were incorrect. You still are. He served on the USS Gridley from June 8th 1967 until July 20th 1968. That's a thirteen month tour, right?

He then volunteered for VN & swift boats (try to follow here, I know it's hard for you--a SECOND tour) and went to school for it and as I said, went to VN and got out early under 1300.39.

...and by the way, all his records were released to his website.

Even us potty-emptying IT types can follow a timeline--with idiots like you voting for Bush, he doesn't need enemies.

h

Horn · « **Reply #235 on:** August 08, 2004, 02:51:46 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
In the interest of "just the facts, ma'am":

From Kerry's own website:

February 18, 1966 Kerry formally enlists in the U.S. Navy

He goes to various stateside schools as everybody did.

June 8, 1967 Kerry reports to USS Gridley.

February 9, 1968 to June 6, 1968 Gridley spends time in the Gulf of Tonkin off North Vietnam, at Subic Bay in the Philippines and in Wellington, New Zealand. returns to US in June.

June - November 1968 Kerry attends stateside school.

November 17, 1968 Upon completion of his training, Kerry reports for duty to Coastal Squadron 1, Coastal Division 14, Cam Ranh Bay, South Vietnam.

Early April, 1969 Kerry departs Vietnam.

So what you've got for his "tours" is

4 months on Gridley in the Gulf of Tonkin off North Vietnam, at Subic Bay in the Philippines and in Wellington, New Zealand, returning to US in June.

5 months total from sign-in to sign-out in Swifts.

Enough of this "did not, did so!" There's the facts according to Kerry himself.

Discuss.

According to the timeline, you've got it wrong--he was on Gridley for 13 months. He didn't get off the boat until July 20, 1968. Go read it agian.

h

Martlet · « **Reply #236 on:** August 08, 2004, 03:07:33 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Horn
You said that he didn't serve two tours. I pointed out that you were incorrect. You still are. He served on the USS Gridley from June 8th 1967 until July 20th 1968. That's a thirteen month tour, right?

h

Um, no. That's a duty station.

Quote

Originally posted by Horn

...and by the way, all his records were released to his website.

Even us potty-emptying IT types can follow a timeline--with idiots like you voting for Bush, he doesn't need enemies.

h

No, all his records WEREN'T released to his website. He refused a request to release all his records.

Do you even have a working knowledge of the candidates you support? You should have stuck with emptying porta potties on base. This politics stuff is way over your head.

Steve · « **Reply #237 on:** August 08, 2004, 04:00:31 PM »

pwned

TweetyBird · « **Reply #238 on:** August 08, 2004, 10:32:29 PM »

>>No, all his records WEREN'T released to his website. He refused a request to release all his records.
<<

Martlet, it seems the candidates military record and being untruthful about them is important to you. Is that true?

If yes, I think we should answer question about both candidates military record. Would that be fair?

Did George W. Bush jump to the head of line, skipping an 8-12 month waiting period to join the National Guard when his education deferment ran out?

Did he in fact request not to be sent overseas ?

Where the hell was George W. Bush in 1972 when he was supposed to be serving in Alabama. Did he *ever* report for duty?

Why was pilot George W. Bush grounded in 1972 - was it because he failed to appear for a physical after the National Guard began drug screening during physicals?

Did George W. Bush leave the National Guard 8 months before his enlisment was up?

Did George W. Bush have a cocaine possession charge expunged from his record?

Was George W. Bush the only President of the United States with a past criminal record?

These are simple questions that require no spin.

Personaly, I think NONE of this matters - but obviously, you think it does - so lets look at both candidate's record.

BTW, anyone interested might google these terms...

+"George W. Bush" +cocaine
+"George W. Bush" +alcoholism
+"George W. Bush" +awol
+"George W. Bush" +dui

Then go back and substitute "John Kerry" for "George W. Bush."
Make up your own mind, be critical of the sources, and ask yourself if any deception is going on.

crowMAW · « **Reply #239 on:** August 08, 2004, 11:06:24 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Crumpp
He spent four months actually putting himself in harms way.

OK then...how long did Bush spend in combat in harms way?

Quote

Originally posted by Crumpp
Kerry is tooting his own horn.
--snip--
Senator McClain for example could draw upon plenty of sevice members who would back his quality of service. Yet his character doesn't allow him to cheapen that service. I don't agree with his politics but I know where he has been and what he has done. I respect him for it.

Do you recall the 2000 Primaries? McCain did plenty of tooting...so much so that Ann Coulter complained that his war service was his fall back when he didn't want to answer the tough questions.

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/coulter022200.asp

Well, the Bush camp in 2000 did about the same smear campaign to McCain, who I also respect a great deal and voted for in the 2000 Primary.

After McCain slam-dunked Bush in the New Hampshire Primary, the gloves came off in South Carolina. They portrayed him as a Commie colaborator using "facts" given to them by Ted Sampley (name should be familiar...that is the same guy that has been smearing Kerry for a while and formed Vietnam Vets Against Kerry). They said that they only way he stayed alive for 5 years in the Hanoi Hilton was by colaborating with the enemy.

There were rumors started that McCain's mental state had been comprimised while a POW. McCain released his military records with psych evals to disprove that.

They also said that being a POW was not really a heroic action since you weren't really fighting the enemy while a prisoner. And so he really shouldn't be called a war hero.

They had veteran Tom Burch get up at a Bush rally and say, "Sen. McCain has abandoned the veterans. He came home and forgot us." But McCain had always been one of the most stallwart supporters of Vets while in office and went the extra mile to find the truth about MIAs in Vietnam.

While not related to his war record the worse offense by the Bush Boys was the "push poll" set up by Karl Rove. It asked the people of South Carolina if they would still be willing to vote for McCain if they knew he had a black child out of wedlock. BTW, McCain has an adopted child with very dark skin from Bangladesh...so, the image was set in voters minds that this child was his illiigetimate daughter. This was coupled by Richard Hand, Bob Jones University professor and Bush supporter, sending an e-mail to "fellow South Carolinians" stating that McCain had "chosen to sire children without marriage."

The McCain smear campaign is funded by the same folks funding the Kerry smear. It is a very slick propoganda machine.