New idea what do you ladies and gentlemen think.

[Grimm]

Originally posted by Zazen13
Ahhh , that's much better! I'm satisfied with that formula, it  addressed my major concern posted above.

Zazen

Yes that does look much better.   Now Im at work I could open the spreadsheet    I changed numbers and it does look better.

[DipStick]

Originally posted by Grimm
Perhaps some of the key Rook players and COs could talk about some alternate squad nights to spread things out a bit.  But thats more a player solution than a HTC one.

Should have done this months ago. I just find it sad HT has to waste his time on this BS because folks like you can't even things up in the first place. That's the nice version of what I'd like to say anyway.

[Rolex]

I think the die was cast before the thread was started...

No one can argue against having balanced sides and a change in MA game play is not a bad thing.

[Murdr]

Originally posted by Grimm
Just another thought,   HT your right,  I am part of the Issue.   I wont change countries.   Adding a flight penalty will still not get me to change.    I guess that "the Solution" wont have me changing to bolster the low country so in my cause it wont do anything to effect balance.  

You're not the 'swing voter' that is being persued here.

Originally posted by hitech
Did a query of the country totals. This is from the entire subscrition base.

Bish = 31.1%
Knights = 32.2%
Rooks = 36.7 %
 

Rooks percent is only 3.4% above even percentages.  So only 1.7% of players need motivated to even the playing field.

[Soda]

Originally posted by Pyro
I get the feeling that people don't realize that there is already a perk adjustment in the current system.  Perk prices and perk point awards are modified by relative country numbers.  This is not enough and we don't feel that further increases it will be the answer and will only cause perk point inflation.

.

I think my feeling is that the perk point system, as currently set, doen't give people a feeling of being immediately penalized though.  Perk planes, for the most part, are "attention magnets" that rarely are worth the cost, problem #1.  The second thing is, the majority of people don't really care how many perk points they earn, they care how many they have currently.  That's where the "earning-bonus" part doesn't work that well, people look at their 200 perk points and don't care that their last La7 sortie only added 0.2. Item #3,  If you put a perk cost on some of the high performance rides that starts to whittle down the perk points they have if they want to take the better rides out.  It puts pressure on them to either accept an "inferior" ride or change countries.  The people with the cheap/no cost perks have that little bit of edge granted them by the aircraft they can afford.  You could have the perk costs extend pretty deep into the planeset to get the magnification of effect you are looking for... a lot of guys you simply can't take out of a top 5 ride and place them in something else, they'd be meat and their numeric advantage in a fight would likely disappear pretty quickly vs a horde of well equipped defenders.

The sortie rate thing has merit but I think it addresses another issue, that of a lack of attrition modeling.  Attrition is such an important concept but isn't modeled in AH.  A sortie rate would impose that to the game probably knocking out a lot of other questionable things, like suiciders, mass swarms (no re-enforcements) and then also add in the possibility of mounting a successful defense with fewer numbers (guys you shoot down don't simply come back to vulch you on the re-arm pad).

Great discussion though, lots of ideas to consider.

-Soda

[Grimm]

Originally posted by DipStick
Should have done this months ago. I just find it sad HT has to waste his time on this BS because folks like you can't even things up in the first place. That's the nice version of what I'd like to say anyway.

Dipstick,   thanks for keeping it nice.  

Our squad isnt a sunday squad, and our squadnights are not normaly all that lopsided.  Perhaps Iv missed alot since Iv been too busy in R/L to have much fly time of late.

You say its because of people like me,  Yet the last time it was a big problem,  it was like minded people that worked hard to fix it.   Why does the burden fall to us again in your eyes?   why cant other players do the same to build their player base?

Iv added my comments because I do care about AH and how things go.  Im trying to be honest so HT can base his decisions on my comments and others.

[IronDog]

I suggest leaving the number thingy as it is.There are more pressing issues,than worrying about being outnumbered.The limited number upping from field in AW was a real pain in the butt.
One shouldn't be told they can't up for awhile,or switch countries.
If the outnumbered counties were given perk planes at no cost,large bonuses for kills,etc.,perhaps that is one way of handling it.The other answer to the numbers dilema,and it won't happen,is to have two countries.WB's,with the rolling Plane set,
seemed to have less problems,as the players didn't seem to have a problem switching sides to even things out,or as it were,to get a better crate to fly!The Luftwobble shined early,and the Allies had the better rides later.
IronDog
475th Fighter Group "Satans Angels"

[nopoop]

Originally posted by Rolex
I think the die was cast before the thread was started...

I think your correct Rolex. The discussion now is to determine the degree at which it would be paletable.

I believe the method is cast in stone with Pyros added comments. The implemation and degree of delay is the discussion.

I'll take myself out. The "problem" doesn't really involve me. I take a break after each sortie, change sides in a heartbeat to find a fight OR radar.

I just have to make the right choice the FIRST time.  THAT would be on my list for fiddling  

The other answer to the numbers dilema,and it won't happen,is to have two countries.WB's,with the rolling Plane set

Actually that WOULD solve the problem. With 80 in MA after everyone else including me bailed and found another game to play is another option

[Muddie]

I just had a thought.  We're all focusing on the numbers thing, but is it really the numbers that irritate everybody?

    I mean, I don't care diddly squat what the numbers are.  I don't like having to up from vulched bases because there are no other choices and I don't like flying blind for hours on end.  Those are the things that irritate me.

     If what really irritates people is the symptoms that come with numbers imbalance, maybe those symptoms would be easier to treat without the risk of alienating player/customers.

    Just a thought.

[Edbert]

Originally posted by AKcurly

Heck, if it doesn't work, we can always request a change.

Thats pretty much what I said on page 1. What we'll need is some sort of criteria whereby the success or failure can actually be measured. The level of whining on the BBS is not very indicative of the general AH community in my opinion.

[DipStick]

Originally posted by Grimm
You say its because of people like me,  Yet the last time it was a big problem,  it was like minded people that worked hard to fix it.   Why does the burden fall to us again in your eyes?   why cant other players do the same to build their player base?

Build their player base? A few squads and lone wolfs from Bish and Knits changed to Rooks to help even the numbers. That's great! That's the only reason Rook numbers are up.

Now the Rook numbers are too high and some Rook squads and lone wolfs need to change to Bish and Knit to even things up again. Is this rocket science?

[Edbert]

Originally posted by hitech
As far as the acctual times go here are a few samples in the range I am thinking. This is based from an average sortie time of 7.5 mins, That was from a random sample of 6 players, I need to queary the enter score base to fine the real average sortie time.

That's GOT to be an anomaly, I'd have guessed it was 3 times that much.

[Canaris]

Only problem with limiting time is people wont want to pay 15 dollars a month to not play.  People are paying the 15 to play, they're not paying to not being able to play.

If people are kicked to even numbers people will get fed up and not play anymore.


Canaris

[Toad]

HT and Pyro, I'm sure you've considered this but I'm putting it out there for some in the thread that might not have thought about it.

Generally, resets come from the numbers advantage.

If you sufficiently inhibit the "numbers" side, they won't be able to achieve the reset. It leads to stalemate. The "low numbers" side doesn't have the troops to gang their way to glory. The "numbers" side is artificially restricted from ganging their way to glory.

If you insufficiently inhibits the "numbers" side, you merely drag out the inevitable, extending the agony of the "low numbers" side.

My main thought on this is you are treating a symptom rather than the disease.

But, hey, I'll find a place to play on any map most nights.

[Grizzly]

Originally posted by hitech

Our current thought is that a country with substantialy more numbers, say in the realm of 20% more will have a time limit imposed between flights. This time would vary with the side balance.

Your thoughts?

I'm sorry HiTech, but I don't like this idea. Consider that those who log off will be doing so because they are less than happy.

Here's my suggestion. Accept the fact that country balance will always be lopsided. Then try to minimize the affect this has upon game play. The biggest negative affect is destruction of the arena by the country with the most players. This is compounded as players switch to the winning side. Why have a system that encourages players to take over the arena by ruining game play for others? With each reset  you gain unhappy customers. Perhaps you can still have a reset system, but based upon something else, like the extend of destruction of a country's resources.

The land grab initiative is not only destructive of game play, it promotes and sustains unbalanced countries as players migrate to the winning side. But an unbalance in countries would not have such a negative affect if it did not result in the destruction of the arena. Even though outnumbered, fun can be had as long as there is a place to play.