Author Topic: I need your input guys.  (Read 1362 times)

Offline Reschke

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I need your input guys.
« on: August 10, 2004, 01:36:52 PM »
I have been thinking about different ways to run a setup for a long time now and with the recent TFT suggestions along with some "guidelines" from HTC I want your input. After my visit with HTC last week my mind has been going over this idea.

The thoughts I have been talking over with some of the CT staff since I got onboard here was to have a long series run over the course of two weeks. It would almost be like a rolling planeset in a way since aircraft that were available in the first week wouldn't be available in the second week and the "front lines" and some base locations would move accordingly. This would foster more mission ideas between squadrons and I think would prepare the way to get new blood who is looking to get out of the MA and find something different.

Another one was brought up by some of you way back when and has been stuck in my mind as well. A "featured" matchup so to speak where we have two aircraft from allied and two from axis planesets going up against each other. The idea I have is to make this sort of a historical and fantasy setup. What I mean by that is that we don't always have to see the P-51 go up against the late 109 series and the Zekes to go up against the Wildcats, Hellcats and Corsairs. This would go a long way toward eliminating the MA attitude that so many of you complain about creeping into the CT.

Unless you all want to continue with that attitude and if so then we will simply let this arena fall off into nothingness.

Keep in mind these are very rough ideas that needs polishing and may never come to fruition simpy because of the way this arena differs from the others we have available. I honestly don't want to step on the SEA CM guys toes by running "mini"events over here because they have put lots of time into getting their events presented and want to see them succeed and sometimes I feel like some of the ideas presented to us by the players step right into the SEA domain. Feel free to email me directly through either reschke@hitechcreations.com or nicholsw@charter.net .

Thanks Guys! I look forward to see what you all think.
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Offline B17Skull12

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I need your input guys.
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2004, 01:46:38 PM »
yes i agree missions need to stay in the SEA.  your going to draw a crowd by big numbers but just have them just as quick because they see no furball, just a huge blob of green, and no red but yet there are 40 people on the other side.

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Offline Squire

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I need your input guys.
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2004, 02:01:33 PM »
"The thoughts I have been talking over with some of the CT staff since I got onboard here was to have a long series run over the course of two weeks. It would almost be like a rolling planeset in a way since aircraft that were available in the first week wouldn't be available in the second week and the "front lines" and some base locations would move accordingly. This would foster more mission ideas between squadrons and I think would prepare the way to get new blood who is looking to get out of the MA and find something different."

Sounds ok by me.

"Another one was brought up by some of you way back when and has been stuck in my mind as well. A "featured" matchup so to speak where we have two aircraft from allied and two from axis planesets going up against each other."

Thumbs down, this sounds like the Duelling Ladder to me.

"Unless you all want to continue with that attitude and if so then we will simply let this arena fall off into nothingness."

Not sure what you mean by that.

"I honestly don't want to step on the SEA CM guys toes by running "mini"events over here because they have put lots of time into getting their events presented and want to see them succeed and sometimes I feel like some of the ideas presented to us by the players step right into the SEA domain."

Your not competing with the SEA so don't worry about it. The CT can have its own "TFT" or whatever and SEA events like Squad Ops will still be there...I see no problem. SEA CM's aren't going to say "Gee we shouldn't run Snaps because that's stepping on the toes of the CT". There is room for both.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2004, 02:04:39 PM by Squire »
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Offline Shane

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I need your input guys.
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2004, 02:16:27 PM »
i still think you CT staffers need to seriously consider the input you've recieved from the MA-types who don't come to the CT for xxxxx reason.
Surrounded by suck and underwhelmed with mediocrity.
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Offline Reschke

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I need your input guys.
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2004, 02:36:35 PM »
Squire the attitude I was referring to was the current MA attitude that makes the CT arena into a mini MA with the pork and auger types running over bases in the middle of the night just to acrue perk points. For me this arena isn't about how many points you can pick up its about how to have good fights with guys like Shane who typically want to teach us by caving our virtual skulls in with pretend cannon shells.

Shane...I am not sure what you mean by the MA types input. I haven't seen it or if I have I haven't recognized those guys as strictly MA types.

Thanks for the input guys
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Offline Skyfoxx

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Re: I need your input guys.
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2004, 03:13:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Reschke

The thoughts I have been talking over with some of the CT staff since I got onboard here was to have a long series run over the course of two weeks. It would almost be like a rolling planeset in a way since aircraft that were available in the first week wouldn't be available in the second week and the "front lines" and some base locations would move accordingly. This would foster more mission ideas between squadrons and I think would prepare the way to get new blood who is looking to get out of the MA and find something different.


I like the idea of continuity over a couple of weeks. The one thing I did like about WWIIonline was the sense of a war with a frontline, not just base capture after base capture by a couple of noe milkrunners. Make the bases harder to capture, making missions and cooperation play a more important role for capturing territory. But still keep airfields close enough to satisfy the furballers.

I don't see any of this as mimicing the SEA events. Still the same CT, just a progression in planeset, time periods and with a couple hours on Thursday nights for those who choose to be involved in a larger mission, whether they be individuals or a squad. No one would be forced to participate. The option is always there to just fly as they normally would.

« Last Edit: August 10, 2004, 03:15:50 PM by Skyfoxx »
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Offline Squire

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I need your input guys.
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2004, 04:06:02 PM »
"Squire the attitude I was referring to was the current MA attitude that makes the CT arena into a mini MA with the pork and auger types running over bases in the middle of the night just to acrue perk points"

Ok, I have to say I agree...as to what to do about it im not so sure, but you have my support in trying a fix.
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Offline o0Stream140o

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Re: Re: I need your input guys.
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2004, 05:41:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skyfoxx
I like the idea of continuity over a couple of weeks. The one thing I did like about WWIIonline was the sense of a war with a frontline, not just base capture after base capture by a couple of noe milkrunners. Make the bases harder to capture, making missions and cooperation play a more important role for capturing territory. But still keep airfields close enough to satisfy the furballers.

I don't see any of this as mimicing the SEA events. Still the same CT, just a progression in planeset, time periods and with a couple hours on Thursday nights for those who choose to be involved in a larger mission, whether they be individuals or a squad. No one would be forced to participate. The option is always there to just fly as they normally would.



I agree with Skyfoxx on this one...  52 days a year having something planned will not take away from SEA... you still have 313 days of flying with out it.  When is the last time you saw 70 people in the CT... whether it be the mission or just being in there... It is a choice whether or not you want to fly it or not...  Even flying TOD every friday night won't take me away from the TFT... and I know the 880 won't either... (just making a guess on that one)
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Offline detch01

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Re: I need your input guys.
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2004, 05:45:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Reschke
The thoughts I have been talking over with some of the CT staff since I got onboard here was to have a long series run over the course of two weeks. It would almost be like a rolling planeset in a way since aircraft that were available in the first week wouldn't be available in the second week and the "front lines" and some base locations would move accordingly. This would foster more mission ideas between squadrons and I think would prepare the way to get new blood who is looking to get out of the MA and find something different.

  I like this idea although I don't think you're going far enough with it to attract and more importantly, hold squadrons in the CT. If you want to attract squadrons, give them long term goals to buy in to. That means longer term setups than two weeks. Two week setups are like 1/2 sitcoms stretched to fit an hour's worth of prime time. More of the same, just a little longer. I'd go for a month per setup, even 6 weeks. Although that's going to mean the fans of any particular theatre will have longer to wait between their favorites.

Quote
Another one was brought up by some of you way back when and has been stuck in my mind as well. A "featured" matchup so to speak where we have two aircraft from allied and two from axis planesets going up against each other. The idea I have is to make this sort of a historical and fantasy setup. What I mean by that is that we don't always have to see the P-51 go up against the late 109 series and the Zekes to go up against the Wildcats, Hellcats and Corsairs. This would go a long way toward eliminating the MA attitude that so many of you complain about creeping into the CT.

  Fighter-town. Good for some, not good for others. I garauntee this will alienate some people - me for one.

Quote
Unless you all want to continue with that attitude and if so then we will simply let this arena fall off into nothingness.
:rolleyes:

Quote
I honestly don't want to step on the SEA CM guys toes by running "mini"events over here because they have put lots of time into getting their events presented and want to see them succeed and sometimes I feel like some of the ideas presented to us by the players step right into the SEA domain.  

The SEA CM's are grownups and they can look after themselves. There a fairly visible line between the CT and events that will remain no matter what you do in the CT (except of course if you start hosting full-blown, pre-register style events).

  The two ideas you've presented here are diametrically opposed to each other. They are presented as "pick one or the long term consequences are dire".  This is incorrect and misleading sir. Leaving the CT as it is most likely means it's population will remain about where it is now and the level of civility in the arena will vary according to the popularity/difficulty of the setup as it has in the past. Even my crystal ball isn't clear enough to forecast the death of the CT in the near future.
  There is no stated goal in your post here Reschke. However, permit me to make a guess. There are two:
Improve the atmosphere in the CT: If you want to increase the level of civility in the arena, there is only one way to do it - present a consistent face for the CT. Pick a method of setups, weighted either to a fighter-town style of play or weighted towards a 2-country winnable war style of play. Once you've got it picked, stick with for a year or so to see how it shakes out. People get frustrated when they expect one thing and are presented another.
Increase the population base of the CT: If you want to increase the population base, more specifically increase the number of regular squadrons in the arena you need to have setups over extended periods of time. Squadrons need long-term game goals and short term player challenges to hold interest in the arena. The long-term goals just don't exist in 1, 2 or 3 week setups. Less change, more variety is what's called for here. 1 week "balanced" setups are just the same-old, same-old. People in the CT have their favorites and wait for them to show up, and the waiting part is a part of what keeps the CT population as small as it is. If you truly intend on increasing the population you need to build in player/squadron buy-ins. The only buy-in available in the CT right now is immediate player gratification, which if fine for a large transient population. I can't quote the numbers, but from what I've seen as I pop into the arena on occasion is a steady backbone of about 10-12 regular "CT" players - these are the people I see everytime I visit the CT no matter what the setup. The rest of us are transients. If there was more to hold my interest I'd stay longer, and that's likely true of the other transients. If there was enough to buy into in the CT I'd be able to move my squadron in on a permanent basis - we came from the AvA in AirWarrior and we do miss not having something like it in AH - but given the current CT, that's just not going to happen.

  All totaled up. You're leaning in two directions at the same time while avoiding having to take a leading step in either path and trying to force "the community" to take their choice of your proposals "or else". IMO CT CM's are leadership slots. Leaders lead - that means out in front, choosing the direction. So pick one, take a step and see where it gets you. If I like the direction you head off to I'll go with you. If I don't I'll wish you well and be on my way and let you get on with yours. That is my attitude.
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Offline TheBug

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I need your input guys.
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2004, 05:47:51 PM »
I kinda like all those ideas, blended into one.  Have a two week setup that focuses on a specific air unit or theater with a planeset that evolves over the week.  Will get multiple planes into one setup, but just not as one big lump.

For example a two week setup that focuses on the Eighth Airforce.  Start off with Spitfires and early Model P47s, B17s and Bostons.  Couple days later add the next P47 lose the Spit and maybe add the P51b.  Next add the P38 and the B26, drop the early P47. The last 47.  Then finally adding the P51d, dropping the 51b.

This is just a rough example and the Luftwaffe would follow in a similiar, historic progression.

We could set up big bomber raids couple nights during the two weeks.  Say for a total of 4-6 raids, with some objectives listed by the CT staff, if the Allies successfully level 3 out of 5 targets assigned during the CT "Missions" they win.

It would take some planning and organizing to get it to run.  But it would be a sense of history role-playing and a bit closer to the TfT people desire, without really changing the open atmosphere of the arena.  If people wish to partake they can, if they wish to interfere, just take it as the random chances of war. :D

I think a lot can be done to enhance the CT experience(for some) without really changing things too much.  It's just gonna take some people to step up, lead and apply the energy.  Also gonna take a much greater interaction with the CT staff than we have at this point.

But along those lines I just wanted to offer some of my "token" praise to Reschke, for sharing with us what they've been discussing on the Staff forum and proposing some potential ideas to make the CT better.

Keep it coming, it is sorely needed
« Last Edit: August 10, 2004, 07:33:28 PM by TheBug »
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Offline TheBug

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Re: Re: I need your input guys.
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2004, 05:51:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by detch01
 All totaled up. You're leaning in two directions at the same time while avoiding having to take a leading step in either path and trying to force "the community" to take their choice of your proposals "or else". IMO CT CM's are leadership slots. Leaders lead - that means out in front, choosing the direction.


Exactly, I like the way you're thinking there asw
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storch

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I need your input guys.
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2004, 06:17:12 PM »
This all sounds promising.  It will require a great deal of co-operation from what seems to me to be a great big wad of type "A" personalities who have spent their entire lives having their own way.  I'm willing to participate and will admit that Bug's idea sounds good providing we get one critical element in place.  Buff drivers.  For any of these scenarios to play out well we will need a healthy and competent cadre of those fellows.  If there were, as an example 16-20 good buff drivers that could fly formation and stay together in and out of a target and they were escorted by already proven players such as the 325th or the 880 FAA (as an example I'm aware there are others) they have a very good chance of hitting their target and landing with acceptable losses.  Just think of it for a moment 48-60 buffs pounding one target!!!!! oh my aching frame rates!!!!!  In PTO set ups that would be a CV complement 8 TBMs 8 SBDs 16 fighters.  That would be grand indeed.  Play that out once weekly and your advancing front idea would work.  You guys may end up being short Axis types to oppose you!

Offline X2Lee

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I need your input guys.
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2004, 06:40:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Reschke


Shane...I am not sure what you mean by the MA types input. I haven't seen it or if I have I haven't recognized those guys as strictly MA types.

Thanks for the input guys


the icon range is the worst thing about the CT
I can see well anyway and dots are harder to see in Ah2 than ah1
but planes are easy to see in real life.

Its the biggest complaint against the CT there is.
And none is willing to make it normal means CT staff dont care if the numbers improve

Thats a fact.

Offline TheBug

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I need your input guys.
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2004, 07:36:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by X2Lee
the icon range is the worst thing about the CT
I can see well anyway and dots are harder to see in Ah2 than ah1
but planes are easy to see in real life.

Its the biggest complaint against the CT there is.
And none is willing to make it normal means CT staff dont care if the numbers improve

Thats a fact.


Not to discredit your opinion on icons, but I have to disagree that planes are easy to see in real life.  They can be very difficult to spot, especially in the sun or with the ground detail behind them.

That would fall in line with Erich Hartmanns comments that he believed that the majority of his victims, never knew he was there.
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Offline B17Skull12

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I need your input guys.
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2004, 07:50:55 PM »
we might wanna do a test with long icons.   we are just turning away people in the CT by our icons.  that was figured out in the General Forum when p6e posted a poll.  radar was also a big issue.
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