Understanding Brand X comments:

[Ripsnort]

Under a few threads over on Brand X BBS, there are a few people that say thing like "AH FM sucks" and AH FM is like WB on easy mode"...this really cracks me up.  

My own experience when I first started:
At first, I did not care much for the FM's (v.34) but I knew the game was not complete, and that BETA does not mean "ready to go". However, I *did* really like the graphics and visuals of the sim.  I came back after two weeks, tried it again, liked it alittle more, though it was hard getting used to the 'cockpit shake' but the flight models improved, this and that were added.  It grew on me.  Then the clouds came.  "Now this is flying"  I thought!  The last release with the terrain improvement really sweetened the pot.  My aim is still very questionable, or it may be the sim, I'm not sure, but one thing is certain, Brand X was no longer a challenge for me, to put it bluntly, I was bored.  Combine boredom with bad connects here and there since the "move", and my intuition told me it was time to move on.

Vila and Hblair had a very good response posts on AGW, I encourage you brand x pilots that visit here to read it, under "ACES HIGH ANYONE?"  As Vila pointed out, you are always going to find brand loyalty, after all, remember when alot of us went from AW to CK?  Remember those debates?  Now look at the "Fly-by-night" sim that was once CK...hehe, I do beleive that in about a year that this sim will have displaced WB's by a long shot, as long as HT and PYRO put forth the same effort in this sim as they did in WB's.

Okay, I've stepped off the stool  

------------------
Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
-Rip1- VF-101 Grim Reapers (RET)
"There is no reason anyone would
want a computer in their home."
   Ken Olson, president, chairman and
founder of Digital Equipment Corp.,1977

[Gadfly]

I have flown every version of AH, since the first day it was released(with the exeception of .44 & .45), and I thought it sucked, though the potential has always been there.

After flying .47 in high rez, I will eat those words and say it is getting pretty good.

Still has a long way to go, but at least it is playable now.

[Sharky]

I wonder how many of the Brand X guys go back  to the CK beta days?  I don't go back that far (Found Brand X just after the Beta ended) .  But I have a pretty good idea what the product was like in the early days. Graphics? yeah right, just god awful (but all were back then) Flight Model? anyone remember the 500 ias Zekes and the UFO P-38?  

In one of the other threads someone commented about the price of AH, and I thought to  myself that this is one of the guys that was paying $2.00/hr for the early Brand W which can't begin to compare what the early AH is.

Just goes to show that the more we get the more we gotta have  

Sharky

[Cobra]

I think Gadfly has (maybe) unintentionally hit on something here...

His post has shown us the progression that AH has made since opening beta, to the point that he is now willing to at least fly it some.  

I agree with the other comment he made regarding the sims progress to go, and that is the key here...

1.)Potential to go  vs. Potential so far achieved.

Is Brand X ahead of AH on Potential achieved, most would say yes, but can AH raise the bar and meet Brand X's level and then surpass them.

Now here is where it gets a bit subjective...

2.)Does AH have more potential to be more innovative vs. Brand X's potential to be more innovative.  What I mean is this, AH is a new product (same developers) vs. Brand X.  Will AH's be more innovative and achieve what many hope is that potential vs. Brand X which is a mature product and maybe decide to be innovative or may take the easier route of just tweaking a mature product.

Again, a subjective measuring stick to a large extent.

As far as FM's, and judging FM's.  I cannot judge a Mustang FM very well because I have never flown one, I can compare that FM to my expectations and to other FM's out in the marketplace however, which is what most of us will do because that is our point of reference, and that's ok.

I can say that if HT ever models a Cessna 172 FM, I could rate that FM, but then I would get shot down alot, and I mean alot in my 172 vs. the rides in the arena...hehe.

My apologies to Gadfly for taking  liberties on interpeting his post and using that here.


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Member of the Flying Elvis's...AH's most elite parachute team...

[Ripsnort]

That was a "deep" post Cobra.  Here's my take on the future:
If AH introduces models of A/C not seen in other online sims, you'll draw more people over.  

If AH introduces driveable ground vehicles before WB's does, you may as well start deleting WB's off the Hard drive since, IMO, they'll be out of business soon.

If AH takes one persons suggestion and adds something "unique" like, towable gliders WITH ground vehicles  in them, then hire more people at AH to handle the crowds at the virtual door.

Coming from a marketing background, to draw hordes in house, offer something the people want and the competition doesn't have.



------------------
Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
-Rip1- VF-101 Grim Reapers (RET)
"There is no reason anyone would
want a computer in their home."
   Ken Olson, president, chairman and
founder of Digital Equipment Corp.,1977

[Cobra]

Ok, Ok.....What Ripsnort said!

What can I say, I'm at work, plus Rip boiled it down very nicely, so again..What Ripsnort said!

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Member of the Flying Elvis's...AH's most elite parachute team...

[Extreme]

I usually don't bother getting into these discussions, but damn it goes on and on  .

What I keep hearing though is "it's got potential" and "it's got a long way to go".  I just wish those who say that state what it is that has potential or what is it that still has a long way to go.

From what I can see, compared to brand X:
1. number of planes...there's enough for me to enjoy it.

2. CVs..water...adds flavour but not a big deal.

3. Other arenas...again adds a bit of flavour but not a big deal.

I don't know..what else is there?  FM?  I won't even get into that one.

Also, for those defending AH...I think using the "It's BETA" argument isn't holding water too well now..given they're gonna go pay for play soon.

ok..fire away...<I need something to read>  
Ex.

[Gadfly]

Extreme, it is hard to argue with 50+ planes in a setting that encourages you to use them.

There are also many nuances that are not in AH yet, but will(may?) be in the future.  That I think is the "potential" that so many speak of.

<edit>Cobra-It is to the point where I would PAY to play it now.

[This message has been edited by Gadfly (edited 01-19-2000).]

[jedi]

The "flight model question" is almost moot, as far as I'm concerned.  I think almost any honest, experienced, RL pilot will tell you that BOTH sims do about as good a job as you're going to find at simulating a medium-sized, high-performance propeller aircraft in "feel."  Both FMs are sufficiently "lacking" that you can pick the nits in either one, and "brand loyalty" will doubtless lead you to conclude that the shortcomings of the one you like are not nearly so irritating as those of "that other sim."

Just as both CK and AW didn't PRECISELY hit the mark as "best flight model" while being able to lay claim to modeling PARTS of flight better than anyone else, AH and WB do the same thing now.  If you had some sort of "inferiority complex" over the flight model you flew before, you can feel good about yourself now, whichever sim you fly.

But what's next?  AH is supposedly ready to go "primetime" for pay.  Well, that's nice, but sadly I'm not ready to pay for it yet    Without listing my reasons simply to be flamed, I'll just say that I don't find the gunnery challenging, nor sufficient difference from Warbirds v1.0 to warrant the change, and I'm don't currently fly enough to justify paying for both games.

My prediction (like rectums, everyone has one) is that one of the "hi-fidelity" sims will fail.  That might be AH, since it offers little "new" in a genre that gets jaded fast.  It might be WW2OL, who's bitten off a huge chunk of something very complex, with questionable ability to carry it through beyond 1940, which IMO isn't gonna be enough of a war to keep folks interested for long.  And of course it might just be WB, who just can't seem to grasp that no one is gonna stick around playing a game they can't connect to, no matter how many updates to the gunnery model you throw at em  

Fortunately, fickle customers like myself can always go with the winner at a later date...

I'll keep my AH installation up to date tho, and when I see some Pacific islands and carriers around, well, who knows?

--jedi

[HaHa]

Enough of this Brand X gerberish. The bloody game is WB and brand A or whatever else your yacking about is AH.

WB was great in its day.. you know what made it great?? The fact it was new, exciting and CONSTANTLY evolving.

Now WB sucks.. you want to know why? It hasn't changed much (if at all) in the last 2 years. It's the same damn "hohum" thing. They propose 3.0 but at the rate they are going it will be a good couple years before we see anything.

I see AH as WB in the early years (too similar sometimes though to be interesting). It's constantly evolving, new elements are being added and the people you fly against are really very good. IF AH keeps evolving within 6 months it will definitely surpass WB in quantity and quality (the graphics quality is already surpassed).

Some other people were mentioning wwIIonline. wwIIonline in my mind seems like a whole bunch of guys taking user comments to the extreme. i.e. for YEEEEARS we've been saying give us ground troops/vehicles and ships.. WB never clued in, FA2 never clued in, AW3 clued in partially (but sucks anyways) and now AH "sorta" clues in ? So wwIIonline MIGHT just be the game we've been squeaking for, for years but then again it might be too complex.

I personally would of rather seen something like AH with a simple campaign model (rank+privledges to make missions), some vehicles to run around in, possible infantry missions and some ships to control. Nothing so complex as trying to simulate wwII. Now if only HTC would listen to me and add those elements to the game.. it would kick the bellybutton of every sim in existance and make them millions.