Author Topic: Kerry to Bush: Bring it on! (Read 1068 times)

rpm · « **Reply #45 on:** August 19, 2004, 11:25:04 PM »

Maybe this will ease your mind Grunslinger. I do not believe The George W. Bush Committee for Re-election publicly, above board funnelled money to the ad or left a paper trail if they did. Better?

Gunslinger · « **Reply #46 on:** August 19, 2004, 11:25:13 PM »

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Originally posted by rpm371
Toad, the problem is they were not saying that at the time. Back then they were praising him publicly for his service. Even as late as 1996 they were campaigning for him. They are liars. There is no proof that any of the accusations are nothing more than a republican marketing group's pack of lies created to make Kerry's service look cheap because their candidate's service was weak at best.

So....it went from Bush is behind the adds...to the Republicans (plural insinuating that the party is behind this) to a republican marketing group.

Why dont you just admit it is a group of Veterans whom happen to be republican supporters.

You've been too much into kerry man.....next thing you'll try and tell me they were a republican marketing group BEFORE they were the Bush team!

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Originally posted by rpm371
Maybe this will ease your mind Grunslinger. I do not believe The George W. Bush Committee for Re-election publicly, above board funnelled money to the ad or left a paper trail if they did. Better?

it's a start. I guess it counts as libralspeak for I was wrong or I just cant prove what I say.

EDIT:

BTW....I'm nothing like Grunherz so you can stop with the Grunslinger. (not that I think you are a bad person Grun)

anonymous · « **Reply #47 on:** August 19, 2004, 11:27:50 PM »

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Originally posted by Toad
Now tell us all how many of those guys that "were not Kerry's crewmate" or "were not in Kerry's boat" were in Coastal Squadron 1, Coastal Division 14 when Kerry was in that unit?

How many of those guys that "were not Kerry's crewmate" or "were not in Kerry's boat" were in Coastal Division 11 when Kerry was in that unit?

How many of those guys that "were not Kerry's crewmate" or "were not in Kerry's boat" were in Coastal Division 13 when Kerry was in that unit?

See, there's a big problem with some military vets when the Kerry campaign starts braying that "so and so wasn't in the boat".

In the Air Force, everybody in the Squadron knows who can hack it and who can't. The stories get around real fast.

In the Army, I'm sure it's about the same. Everybody in the Company pretty much knows who the screw-ups and "doers" are. You don't have to be in the same squad to know that.

I'm sure in the Navy it's quite the same in a relatively small Coastal Squadron.

So to vets, this "wasn't in the boat" stuff doesn't float very far and makes the Kerry campaign look stupid.

They have chosen to run on his VietNam record. A stupid choice IMO but it may be all they have. They've got a group that can't easily be dismissed that was THERE when Kerry was THERE saying he's not so hot. Not good.

They've got Kerry's own anti-war testimony to deal with too and eventually that's going to get dug up and examined under a microscope. Not good.

They cry like babies about pro-Bush 527 groups linked to the Reps bashing Kerry in ads while they deny that any pro-kerry 527 groups bashing Bush have links to the Dems. As if; they make themselves look foolish with such hypocrisy.

Kerry's smartest move right now would be to distance himself from his VN experience... because that "Winter Soldier" thing is right around the corner in this campaign and it's going to P.O. a lot of VN vets when what he said about them gets spread across the headlines again.

Kerry better get busy and lay out some plans on where he's gonna take us and how he's gonna get it done. You know... that Leadership Thing that he want's us to believe he has in spades because he was a JO on a PCF 30 years ago.

He's hurting himself bigtime with the VN fixation, IMO.

spot on. reputation can spread beyond unit and go base-wide and even community wide easy. especially if its extreme either bad or good.

Toad · « **Reply #48 on:** August 19, 2004, 11:27:55 PM »

So you're equating them to moveon.org and America Coming Together? A Democratic marketing group's pack of lies created to make Bush look bad?

Look, IF these guys have changed their stories, then the BEST thing Kerry could do would be to SHOW that. Either print or film clips back to back of the "then and now" on his fellow Swifties. In short, attack THEIR credibility by showing their Flip/Flops. If what you say is true, it could easily be done, no?

This "they weren't in the boat" defense makes me laugh out loud. Sorry, man... EVERYBODY in my sqaudron knew how everybody else was doing. They were your friends, your buddies...... and your competitors for promotion. We all kept tabs. Telling me so and so couldn't "KNOW" the character of a squadronmate because he was in a different boat in the formation simply makes whoever says that look like a fool. IMO. And probably in a lot of other vets opinion as well.

Like I said, they'd best distance themselves from VN. Winter Soldier is going to be a two-three week topic if they don't and it'll probably be mid-October when it gets center stage. That's a minefield for Kerry.

rpm · « **Reply #49 on:** August 19, 2004, 11:39:08 PM »

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Originally posted by Gunslinger
So....it went from Bush is behind the adds...to the Republicans (plural insinuating that the party is behind this) to a republican marketing group.

Why dont you just admit it is a group of Veterans whom happen to be republican supporters.

You've been too much into kerry man.....next thing you'll try and tell me they were a republican marketing group BEFORE they were the Bush team!

The Swift Boat ad was produced by the political advertising firm also responsible for producing attack ads that questioned McCain’s military service when he was running against Bush in 2000. So yes, they always were a political marketing group.

Sorry for getting your names confused. When I'm being dogpiled it's hard to tell the difference.

Gunslinger · « **Reply #50 on:** August 19, 2004, 11:42:38 PM »

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Originally posted by rpm371
The Swift Boat ad was produced by the political advertising firm also responsible for producing attack ads that questioned McCain’s military service when he was running against Bush in 2000. So yes, they always were a political marketing group.

Sorry for getting your names confused. When I'm being dogpiled it's hard to tell the difference.

but you are saying that the Bush campaign is NOT behind these adds...OR you just cant prove that they are?

rpm · « **Reply #51 on:** August 19, 2004, 11:44:30 PM »

Toad, that is what they are doing. You just won't see it on Fox News. Kerry told Bush to "Bring it on" and debate him about his service and give him the chance to publicly defend his war record and decorations and give Bush opportunity to denounce the ads. Nothing but crickets from Dubya.

Gunslinger · « **Reply #52 on:** August 19, 2004, 11:49:17 PM »

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Originally posted by rpm371
Nothing but crickets from Dubya.

kerry is policking here

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The President deplores all the unregulated soft money activity. We have been very clear in stating that, you know, we will not -- and we have not and we will not question Senator Kerry's service in Vietnam.

Bush does not have to condemn the adds because he has condemnd ALL adds from soft money groups....something kerry has not done......nore specifically done with any of the attack adds FOR him AGAINST Bush.

Keep spinning....keep digging.

rpm · « **Reply #53 on:** August 19, 2004, 11:52:52 PM »

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Originally posted by Gunslinger
but you are saying that the Bush campaign is NOT behind these adds...OR you just cant prove that they are?

First, the quote does not match the question. You need to take a break.

Second, I answered the question already. Asking it again will not get a different response.

And in conclusion, I am going to actually fly Aces High for a couple hours. I suggest you do the same, it's a fun game. If not, feel free to dogpile and make believe you are winning a debate.

Gunslinger · « **Reply #54 on:** August 19, 2004, 11:56:31 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by rpm371
First, the quote does not match the question. You need to take a break.

Second, I answered the question already. Asking it again will not get a different response.

And in conclusion, I am going to actually fly Aces High for a couple hours. I suggest you do the same, it's a fun game. If not, feel free to dogpile and make believe you are winning a debate.

sorry man I wasnt intent on dogpiling you everyone else joined in on their own accord.

Happy hunting though....wish I had a puter that would run AH2 or I'd be flying.

Toad · « **Reply #55 on:** August 20, 2004, 12:10:13 AM »

If you make those assumptions about me, you're going to end up deluding yourself.

I make it a point to read more of the opposing side views on an issue than ones that support my position. That's how you learn. I know what Fox is going to say; that's why I usually read BBC, Reuters, AP, ABC, NBC, CBS and CNN first. I read Al Jazeera too.

If the Kerry campaign can show these Swifties in "flip/flops" on their support of Kerry they better get off their butts and do it. They're losing right now.

Debating Bush on the two Lieutenants repective war record is a loser for Kerry as well. It leads directly to his anti-war activities. While those may make him a sainted hero with the left wing of the Democratic party (which is probably why he got the nomination), it's not going to help him with most VN vets. In fact, it's going to P.O. a lot of them to an "enraged" level.

527's? That's easily flipped. Bush has already said that 527's should be ended. He's said it slipped through a crack in the campaign reform act and he wants them eliminated. Think Kerry will join him in that call for further reform?

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Decrying large donations, Kerry said during the 2002 Senate debate on BCRA, “The American people have become almost numb to these kinds of staggering figures, and they have come to expect fund-raising records to be broken with each election cycle. And, what is far worse for our democracy, is that the public also believes that this money buys access and influence that average citizens don't have.”

So now that Soros alone has given ~$16 million to pro-Kerry/anti-Bush 527's, what do you think Kerry's position is?

I'm thinking if Bush challenged Kerry to decry all 527 money and help him with further campaign reform we'd hear....... crickets.

Again, the easy way out of this for Kerry is to talk about where he's going, not where he's been. HE'S the one making VN the focus of his campaign, not Bush. Big Mistake, IMO.

rpm · « **Reply #56 on:** August 20, 2004, 02:19:46 AM »

Toad, I did not mean to insinuate you only watched Faux. I was illustrationg my point that none of the right wing news outlets are going to carry it. Kerry has started running ads debunking SBBBB's propaganda in the markets it was aired today. He did it with "hard money". Both sides are holding on to their warchests until the RNC when they will beat us senseless 24/7 up until the election.

All "soft money" should be banned because it puts the inmates in charge of the asylum, IMHO. I believe this will come up in the debates and both will agree. Debates...can't wait to see how those go.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #57 on:** August 20, 2004, 02:37:26 AM »

rpm you're such a funny guy.. You've bought this Kerry nonsense 100% and you're so enthusiastic and honest about it, like you think Kerry gives a damn about people like you..

Now dont turn this into whrther W gives a damn about you, because we allready know you dont think he does, and you're prolly right, but then why be so gullible about Kerry..

Go Keery! Go rpm! Kerry Kares!

rpm · « **Reply #58 on:** August 20, 2004, 02:44:19 AM »

I am no worse than the Bush supporters in here. I like to think I am a relatively informed and educated voter. Neither candidate is my ideal choice, but I believe (really do) that Kerry will assemble a better team than Bush has.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #59 on:** August 20, 2004, 02:59:42 AM »

Who dou think his team will be?

Personally I dont think much of his VP, he's a slick guy and fun talker but he has no experience whatysoever except one term in the Senate. Plus he is a medical mal practice/ personal injury lawyer, so I highly doubt he will allow Kerry do anything much to cut healcare costs as much of the rise in costs is directly related to outrgeus mal practice insurance rates. Guess why those go up??

What about the other positions?