Author Topic: Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY  (Read 8230 times)

Offline Goobman

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY
« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2004, 02:57:10 AM »
I was going to log tonite early...but then I saw the eny limiter was on the rise for the Rooks. So just for spite against the facist eny limiter I stayed on for awhile longer as did many other Rooks.  Suprisingly we won the reset.....too funny. The eny limiter seems to have had the opposite effect than what was desired. Instead of rooks migrating to another country to fly "their" plane, they got pissed off, worked together better than they had in a long time, and totally demolished the Bish. It was a sight to see, what with limiter up to 30 for long periods of time. The eny limiter was a bad idea and does nothing to help even out the sides, tonight was further proof of that. Get rid of it and let the game right itself as it has in the past. Otherwise youre going to end up with a horde of Rooks that are proficient in the late models AND the early models and not less Rooks.

Offline Kev367th

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5290
Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY
« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2004, 02:58:03 AM »
Some people have suggested that Roscoroo, but I don't believe most would be happy with price that they should be at.

The current perk system/prices makes no sense. If a 262 at ENV 5 is 200, why should a Pony at ENV 6, or an LA7 at ENV 5 be free when there are higher ENV planes perked (Spit 14, F4U4 etc)?
Answer - because you'd get the same amount of whines about them being perked based on their ENV value.

The people (apart from you) who have suggested perk instead of (or in conjuction with) ENV disable mention 4-5 perks, max I had seen was 10.
How would people feel about being able to pay 160 perks for a Pony (based on ENV value) during ENV limitation?
Rhetorical question I guess, I know the answer.

Goobman - Unfortuneately the game hasnt sorted itself out, that is why HT made the change. This is one night, the first night in a long time it has been really unbalanced, so you can't say it isn't working.

TBolt - Whatever change HT made he was going to tick people off.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2004, 03:04:55 AM by Kev367th »
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T
Asus M3N-HT mobo
2 x 2Gb Corsair 1066 DDR2 memory

Offline Zazen13

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3600
Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY
« Reply #47 on: September 06, 2004, 03:01:17 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
So, if it is very early in the morning and 12 Bish, 4 Rooks and 3 Knits are flying... Yeah, there needs to be a maximum in place or the plane set dwindles to almost nothing.



The ENY thingy doesn't kick in until the total arena population is 140+.

Zazen
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
Author of, "The Zen Art of Cherrypicking" and other related works.
Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc

Offline B17Skull12

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3839
Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY
« Reply #48 on: September 06, 2004, 03:05:11 AM »
Goobman, the eny limiter isn't about reset.  it is about an attempt at equalling numbers.  resets still happen, but with the eny limiter you are giving the bish/knits a chance to fight back at the overwhelming horde.  it is just keeping your large numbers down so in that sense yes it is working.
II/JG3 DGS II

Offline Goobman

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY
« Reply #49 on: September 06, 2004, 03:15:52 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kev367th
Goobman - Unfortuneately the game hasnt sorted itself out, that is why HT made the change. This is one night, the first night in a long time it has been really unbalanced, so you can't say it isn't working.



Kev, I havent seen a decrease on Sunday nights for the Rooks since the eny limiter inception. Mon-Sat nights seem to also be about the same. Our numbers haven't changed yet, and I seriously doubt they will. Myself and other Rooks will not switch sides. And as it has been said before.... a horde is a horde is a horde no matter what plane they're flying. Tonight was simply a turning point, expect to see more of it.

Offline Kev367th

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5290
Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY
« Reply #50 on: September 06, 2004, 03:19:11 AM »
Well I guess its time to get the Knit/Bish pork squads back up and running. No Rook troops or ord for 50-75 miles should be about right. Shame we can't still do it to your fuel also, but thats another story.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T
Asus M3N-HT mobo
2 x 2Gb Corsair 1066 DDR2 memory

Offline ghi

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2669
Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY
« Reply #51 on: September 06, 2004, 03:19:39 AM »
wtg, rooks
 you could reset us with C.202s, TBMs and C47 with those #s, 2 vs 1, most of the evening.
      Plus you have the best quality players now,
 How to fight you guys with all our new players ?! Lot of bish moved to rookland for this reason.
   
  We have 3-4 bish most of the time  escorting our CVs in PTs, 6-7 sectors away from enemy base, if they see enemy they disapear like cockroachs ,
or are driving tanks for hours, 25 miles to enemy base without spawn point

Offline Goobman

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY
« Reply #52 on: September 06, 2004, 03:27:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by B17Skull12
Goobman, the eny limiter isn't about reset.  it is about an attempt at equalling numbers.  resets still happen, but with the eny limiter you are giving the bish/knits a chance to fight back at the overwhelming horde.  it is just keeping your large numbers down so in that sense yes it is working.



B17skull12, reference my previous post to Kev. WE, the Rooks, are not going to switch sides. The Rook hordes, that so many seem to whine about, are not going to go away....Eny limiter or not. I would suggest the other 2 countries spend more time on tactics or strategies that are effective in fighting a larger force instead of whining about equal numbers. I refuse to allow the eny limiter force me into a decision to switch sides that I normally wouldn't make. To that end, not only am I not going to switch sides but I will fly more than I normally did before eny limiter was put into place. That will be my form of protest until I decide where I will spend my $15 in the future.

Offline Kev367th

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5290
Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY
« Reply #53 on: September 06, 2004, 03:38:57 AM »
Whats so funny is that if people think by flying more it is somehow proving the ENV limiter isn't/doesn't work, boy they are in a for a surprise.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T
Asus M3N-HT mobo
2 x 2Gb Corsair 1066 DDR2 memory

Offline Goobman

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY
« Reply #54 on: September 06, 2004, 03:42:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kev367th
Well I guess its time to get the Knit/Bish pork squads back up and running. No Rook troops or ord for 50-75 miles should be about right. Shame we can't still do it to your fuel also, but thats another story.


So this is different than before Eny limiter? Seems like we're back in the same situation. My squad was originally Bish. We moved to Rooks a few months back. Do you know why? Because Bish refuse to organize. Most are content with vulching fields while their goon dies next to an untouched town. I know because I was that goon most of the time. Eny limiter isnt the answer. Bish and Knights flying smarter and organizing their force is the answer to a larger enemy. The Rooks did it before when they were the low man on the totem pole. Most of this "eny limiter" talk smacks of jealousy and laziness. Getting your butts beat? Then do something about it! Don't expect someone to always come in and do it for you. When I flew Bish, I never once complained about Rook numbers, even on Sunday nights. My squad and I buckled our belts and fought harder and smarter and we could usually get the best of the enemy. It never even entered my mind to ask HT to "even" up the sides for us. Thats a weak mans way out.

Offline Goobman

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY
« Reply #55 on: September 06, 2004, 03:44:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kev367th
Whats so funny is that if people think by flying more it is somehow proving the ENV limiter isn't/doesn't work, boy they are in a for a surprise.


Lets see.....eny limiter is suppose to force me to either switch sides or log off in frustration. Hmmm since I'm not going to do either, apparently it isnt working.

Offline Kev367th

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5290
Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY
« Reply #56 on: September 06, 2004, 03:47:26 AM »
Quote
The Rooks did it before when they were the low man on the totem pole.


What people seem to conveniently overlook is that is was also helped by a lot of Bish and Knit squads going to the Rooks to even out the numbers.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T
Asus M3N-HT mobo
2 x 2Gb Corsair 1066 DDR2 memory

Offline Goobman

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY
« Reply #57 on: September 06, 2004, 03:48:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kev367th
What people seem to conveniently overlook is that is was also helped by a lot of Bish and Knit squads going to the Rooks to even out the numbers.



Yup and they eventually did it without any interference by HTC

Offline Zazen13

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3600
Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY
« Reply #58 on: September 06, 2004, 03:50:23 AM »
I'm not going to get Hot n' Heavy into the ENY debate here but I want to point out a few things. The core problem and misjudgement on HTC's part is very simple. HTC was banking on a substantial number of players being more loyal to a specific aircraft than to their friends of years to over a decade in many of instances. Now, anyone who has been WW2 sim'ing for over a decade could undoubtedly kick serious bellybutton in a Cheerios box if it had wings and some guns. The limiter is in actuality having only two effects:
 
1) Pissing alot of people off and not just Rooks, Bishops have similiarly high ENY penalties Monday nights, Knights Thursdays.

2) Causing people to simply log-off and do something else when penalized.

Effect #1 does not change the balance of anything it just makes paying customers unhappy (major business blunder).

Effect #2 does help balance in a limited fashion but anyone who is so dissatisfied they'd rather log-off than switch countries or fly a lesser plane probably isn't going to pony up his subscription fee come renewal time either (business blunder).

Aces High is a product, to be sure, but it is also a 'private club' of sorts. We pay a membership fee to fly and chat with long-time friends. Aces High is unique and set-apart from other FPS's because its basis is historical and therefore tends to attract alot more adults, hobbyists and enthusiasts of the genre and subject-matter that have inter-woven relationships extending far further back in time than AH itself. Your typical 40'ish adult with a career and family has only so much discretionary free-time. We choose to spend that limited free-time  playing Aces High because of a love for the subject matter, of flying generally and because of a deep repore with and loyalty to our old friends. We are not particularly interested in 'meeting new people' or 'mingling' as Arlo suggests. We know everyone, at least in a cursory way, through inter-country chat, personal experience/interactions and this message board. All we want to do is to spend time with our friends enjoying our collective hobby together and we don't mind paying whatever for that priviledge.

This whole ENY thing was put into place because of alot of 'pissing and moaning' (and cancellations I presume and hope as doing something this drastic just because of whiners would be rediculously stupid on HTC's part) about Rooks' Sunday RJO as it continued past Rooks' period in the numerical bucket (we were never given a reprieve from this by HTC we dug our own way out over time and with alot of concerted effort). We haven't had an RJO since the weekend the ENY thingy was introduced. I have even noticed several Rook squadrons moved their squadnight off of Sundays to help to ameliorate the situation. If anyone pays attention to the average roster numbers you would realize our numbers this Sunday were not actually above the average prime-time numbers for any country for any night of the week. The only difference was Knights and Bishops had far fewer people than they typically have during prime-time evening hours. This is not something I think Rooks, or anyone, should be punished for either by being forced to switch countries or by  having their options curtailed. The problem is not Rooks numbers on Sundays, we no longer even attempt to field the 300+ we used to, the problem is Bishops and Knights are NOT playing on Sundays,  exacerbating their own plight that would actually be non-existant if they simply fielded the same numbers they do the other 6 nights of the week.

That being said, as far as I am concerned, personally, the ENY thingy makes little difference to me, only one of the 4 aircraft I fly is under ENY 20, and I have an affinity for several aircraft with ENY ratings of  35+. I can kick just as much bellybutton in a P47D11 as I can a P51D, it's not going to have an appreciable effect on my impact upon the enemy, nor anyone else with my experience and skills. What it does is make me feel an even stronger bond, comraderie and sympathy toward those also suffering this form of 'persecution' for no other reason than simply having superior co-operation and country character appeal. This has the net effect of making myself and people like me even less likely to switch countries for any 'altruistic' reasons. HTC and the rest of you need to realize it's not about the 'planes' we fly that makes us Rooks, Bishops or Knights, it's about the 'people' we fly with and the relationships we've built with those people over the years.

I come from an AW background that lasted from 1992 to 2001? when EA killed it. Never, ever, not even once was any kind of 'balancer' of any sort put into effect in the entire 10+ year history of AW which had far, far, far more subscribers than HTC ever dreamed of having. There was ebb and flow, there was natural shifting by those who liked the underdog side, there were the fair weather flyers that liked the advantaged side, but in the final analysis the numbers always basically evened out in the long-term using the exact same 3-country system. A heavy-handed approach that attempts to coerce  people to not fly with those they would otherwise choose to fly with just builds resentment, dissatisfaction and a general apathy toward those that impose it. (business blunder)

The argument HTC came up with for this imposition was that no other FPS games allow complete, unbridled freedom of choice as to side selection. Well, that may or may not be true but,  those games are largely populated by children, with no social bonds or long-term interpersonal relationships and no common affinity for anything in particular other than video gaming generally. They have no real community per se, they have no con's, they usually do not even have a central message board or chat room interface and if they do it is nowhere near as active and comprehensive as this one is. You are comparing apples to oranges, this is not 'like' other FPS's and should not be dealt with in a similiar fashion. Other FPS are only popular for a short period then quickly die out as the next best, greatest FPS is released and takes its place, unlike AH and AW before it which enjoy an incredibly high-fidelity, loyal and long-term  customer base. Does HTC REALLY want AH to become like every other FPS? I think NOT!...We are adults for the most part, hobbyists, arm-chair historians and professionals with only one common desire, to enjoy our 'private club' and the company of our long-time friends with WW2 Air Combat as the back-drop.

Peace out!

Zazen
« Last Edit: September 06, 2004, 03:23:29 PM by Zazen13 »
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
Author of, "The Zen Art of Cherrypicking" and other related works.
Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc

Offline Kev367th

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5290
Rooks Win Reset Despite ENY
« Reply #59 on: September 06, 2004, 03:50:31 AM »
OK then, so why isn't the reverse happening.
Try to stay away from the country (chess piece) loyalty BS we all hear about.
Our squad has flown all countries and still have great buds in all three.
Zazen, you dug your way out with help from squads who changed sides to balance the unequallness out.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2004, 03:52:41 AM by Kev367th »
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T
Asus M3N-HT mobo
2 x 2Gb Corsair 1066 DDR2 memory