Author Topic: P-38 film  (Read 2796 times)

Offline Ack-Ack

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P-38 film
« on: September 13, 2004, 05:28:27 AM »
Film I shot last night fighting Bishops at A37.   It's against a Bf109 but I don't know which variant.  They all look the same to me.

The film starts with me chasing a running F4U4 that decided to leave after he blew his initial advantage.  I was going to turn off the film after it became obvious this guy had no intentions of fighting but when I did my view sweep, I spotted a dot on my six in the distance.  Pretty much figured the F4U was going to drag me and then dive to his field to get me low so the Bishop closing on my six can cherry for the kill.  Sure enough, the F4U rolled and broke for the deck so I pulled up and headed to the dot that was behind me and engaged it.

I had already two fights with this pilot earlier and on the first one he pulled this reversal on me.  The next flight I ran into him again and this time I was ready for his reversal and hung back when he attempted it and got him this time.  This is our third fight and again he attempted the reversal a couple of times but I was able to hang back.  My crappy gunnery skills again rear their ugly heads and I miss on a few opportunities but I did manage to hit him with a solid burst at about 600 yards out.  Don't know how much damage I did but he crashed a few moments later.

It was a good fight and a good example of the P-38's handling and maneuvering capabilities.  Not often does the P-38's turning ability get compared to the Nancyfire

ack-ack



P-38 vs. Bf109

479th Film Library
« Last Edit: September 13, 2004, 05:37:02 AM by Ack-Ack »
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
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Offline clouds

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P-38 film
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2004, 08:03:07 AM »
WOW, I was amazed about those bad moves a very good pilot like Fester did until his splattering into the ground like logical consequence.

Anyway, afther the first merge it became almost impossible to him manage that situation correctly because his only escape window was soon closed wasting all his E and he could nomore escape.

He could have been a better chance to maneuver his 109 trying scissoring and rolling due the poor rolling performances of P38, in some cases this functioned when I made this moves.

This is my point of view. :aok
« Last Edit: September 20, 2004, 08:21:35 AM by clouds »

Offline Ack-Ack

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P-38 film
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2004, 03:17:57 PM »
It looks like he dumped he energy in order to force me to over shoot so he can get me on the reversal.   Nice plan in theory, terrible in execution.


ack-ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
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Offline pellik

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P-38 film
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2004, 02:30:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by clouds
WOW, I was amazed about those bad moves a very good pilot like Fester did until his splattering into the ground like logical consequence.

Anyway, afther the first merge it became almost impossible to him manage that situation correctly because his only escape window was soon closed wasting all his E and he could nomore escape.

He could have been a better chance to maneuver his 109 trying scissoring and rolling due the poor rolling performances of P38, in some cases this functioned when I made this moves.

This is my point of view. :aok


Fester plays overshoot games. Most good pilots will prefer a quick overshoot to a long drawn out fight. Ack-ack manages to drop so much E before the merge that he sticks right in behind fester. If he had been 50mph faster the fight would have gone the other way and ended right when it started. This is true for any overshoot maneuver. If you can make yourself co-e while he is maneuvering you'll have a good start in the fight.

Rolling against most 38s is a fine idea, but not against the good ones. Full rudder and a little forward pressure on the stick allow the 38 to roll at a decent rate, but not many pilots are really competent with the rudder. Obviously a  190 or the like will still out roll a 38, but most planes won't really gain much from rolling other then allowing even more closure and putting themselves in a harder spot to evade the shot. If rolling is that important in the fight the 38 has a very controllable snap roll, just pull the stick back past the stall point and kick rudder. Push forward to stop.

-pellik

Offline clouds

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P-38 film
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2004, 08:04:12 AM »
Obviously I'm not a skilled P-38's pilot but.....listening to who instead is, it seems the 38 have not a weak point, however it is, I have not so many difficulties to down a 38 with any of mine Spits V/IX (and sometime with my La7) and I don't think all I've met are bad pilots ;)  (maybe some times they'r in a bad start position but....this is the game).

For sure, if I meet a good pilots, it could be hard to me have a chance to have a good fire solution but........usually I work on this situations with much fun and some adrenaline  ;) :cool:

P.S.: I don't consider the 38 a Dogfighter because of its dimensions, it is a big plane and so it could become a simple target also from far away, and.......horiz stabilizer is another weak point (maybe the worst of all).
« Last Edit: September 24, 2004, 05:10:28 PM by clouds »

Offline pellik

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P-38 film
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2004, 02:37:45 PM »
There arn't many skilled 38 pilots in the MA these days. I can think of maybe 5 that fly actively, and another 6 or so that are on as little as two days a tour. If you want to learn about the 38 message me in the game and I'll head to the DA with ya.

-pellik

Offline clouds

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P-38 film
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2004, 05:06:23 PM »
Thk in advance pellik, I appreciate your interest but......i've not an active MA account at the moment, only H2H arenas.

So if you wanna come there (tell me when before) we'll meet.

:aok
« Last Edit: September 24, 2004, 05:09:25 PM by clouds »

Offline MaddogJoe

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P-38 film
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2004, 06:38:49 PM »
the P38 is a great ride and a VERY capable dogfighter. I'm not one of the "pros" Pellik mentioned, but I'm no slouch. Pellik is a good teacher, and I wish I could spend some more time with him.

I think the biggest problem I have with the 38 is its such a great Jabo plane that I'm forever fighting with ord. on board !!! If it wasn't for that I'd have some decent numbers in it. A fast spit is about the only plane I fear in it  :)

Offline pellik

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P-38 film
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2004, 07:51:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MaddogJoe
the P38 is a great ride and a VERY capable dogfighter. I'm not one of the "pros" Pellik mentioned, but I'm no slouch. Pellik is a good teacher, and I wish I could spend some more time with him.

I think the biggest problem I have with the 38 is its such a great Jabo plane that I'm forever fighting with ord. on board !!! If it wasn't for that I'd have some decent numbers in it. A fast spit is about the only plane I fear in it  :)


There are a few approaches to dealing with high spits in a 38. You'll want to identify what type of spit it is pretty quick if you can, as the bs you can pull against a spit9 is a lot greater then a spit5.

To help inspire confidence in the 38 let me lay out a very common scenario for you: You're sitting on auto climb at about 5k and spot a spit9 lining up on your high 6 at about d2.5 out. You see the - sign so you know he is closing pretty quick.

First unload your drop tanks and ord. Turning while heavy isn't too hot an idea unless you're really sure of the situation. Then hit auto level and WEP to get some E and get trimmed up.

Two seconds later or so your trim is set and your spit is at 'd2.0' and closing. Here you want to start a low yo yo to try and get below him. Watch what he does here very carefully. I'm going to assume he dives straight at you pressing the HO pass.

This first pass you want to just fly right under him. You should be just slightly nose up by the time he passes. It's a very hard shot for him so you can be confident in your pass. Basically you turned that low yo-yo into a good amount of vertical seperation. After the pass just go about 30 degrees nose high and extend out. This 'fake pass' will tell you a lot about your opponent.

Keeping with the 'average spit9' he extends out in much the same mannor, and the  distance between your planes will be at D2.5 again in no time. He will do an immel and start diving toward you here. He is going to try harder this shot.

Right after he does his immel and gets a little E repeat the low yo-yo, and keep nose down comming out of the turn. Make him dive even more to try for the shot. Before he passes start pulling nose up into an immel yourself. You want to zoom up right behind him as he blows by. Because he is an 'average spit' he intends to turn fight with you and will likely do a high yo-yo or immel himself.

Do a double immel, you're still below him and, despite being low E, you're capable of stalling much later then he is thanks to the neutral stall characteristics of the 38. He will break into a low yo-yo or flat turn after his one immel to try and get around on you. Pop full flaps to top off your second immel faster and do a low yo-yo toward him. Between rolling in the immel and the full flap nose low turn you're now winning an angles fight. If you can't get the shot right here scissor into him after your planes pass. You should be just shy of a shot while he is maybe 10 degrees away from getting the HO he just planned out. You roll to the other side and do a slightly high yo-yo. He will pass right in front of you. With practice this pass is a good kill shot You can now saddle up for a while and keep pressing for a shot. There is almost nothing he can do to get a good shot on you thanks to being 50mph faster and not having flaps. You just won the fight against a high spit entierly because you were slower then him when the turning started.

This is an example of using just one of the 38s advantages. There really is something in your favor in any situation. Not many pilots learn to appriciate this, most rely on flying a plane which is just terribly good at one thing. Spit pilots just want to turn. LA7 pilots just want to go fast. The 38 has the advantage over every plane if you get control over the terms of the fight. Don't try to play energy games with an LA7, and don't lock yourself into a flat turn with a spit, you'll do fine.

As far as carrying ord goes, this is what's nice about seperate fighter and attack modes. If your K/D in attack sucks it's because your heavy. Use your K/D in fighter to see how you stack up in fights.

-pellik

Offline MaddogJoe

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P-38 film
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2004, 09:43:00 PM »
Thanks Pellik, now I have something else to work on !  LOL!!! As if I didn't have enough already  ;) Its going to take me a week to break that down into english first!

j/k thanks for the info, I know what you say makes sence, now its just trying to get me to remember it thats the tuff part!  

.... umm btw, films are a great learning tool.... ya got any ?  :)

Offline Ack-Ack

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P-38 film
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2004, 12:11:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by MaddogJoe
Thanks Pellik, now I have something else to work on !  LOL!!! As if I didn't have enough already  ;) Its going to take me a week to break that down into english first!

j/k thanks for the info, I know what you say makes sence, now its just trying to get me to remember it thats the tuff part!  

.... umm btw, films are a great learning tool.... ya got any ?  :)



479th Film Library


Mostly P-38 films.



ack-ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline MaddogJoe

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P-38 film
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2004, 10:00:32 AM »
Thanks AK-AK but I got my computer set-up so as soon as you or anyone else in the 479th post I get the film !  LOL!! Thanks to Murdr and everyone else who put together the films section, I know I'm not the only one who appreciates it!  

Offline killnu

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P-38 film
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2004, 08:59:55 PM »
mmmm, P38s, yummy.  :rolleyes:

good film collection.

~S~
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Offline Happy1

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P-38 film
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2004, 09:56:29 PM »
Ack-Ack m unable to download ANY of ur films!!  Keep getting

"SERVICE UNAVAILABLE" MSG ...Pls fix....thx.

Happy1  :D

Offline Ack-Ack

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P-38 film
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2004, 02:21:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Happy1
Ack-Ack m unable to download ANY of ur films!!  Keep getting

"SERVICE UNAVAILABLE" MSG ...Pls fix....thx.

Happy1  :D



Grrrrrr....the new hosts were supposed to make the changes.  iPowerWeb is useless :c/

I'll make the fixes tonight after I get home from work.



ack-ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song