Alright, the CON's over..can we get some news?

[Karnak]

Pyro,

What I recall wasn't that they bombed from too high as being the complaint, rather that they were laser accurate from that high and a single Lanc could close a medium field.

[DoKGonZo]

FWIW, I like the way bombs are delivered ... as a pattern. That's the way it was. If you want pin-point accuracy, use a different plane.

What I don't like is that the calibration process now is maybe too complicated for arena play. I liked the old system whereby the bomb sight needed time to settle so you couldn't do wild manouevers and then release 2 seconds later. It wass simple, elegant, and just plain worked. What made it bizzah was the laser-guided nature of the bombs themselves.

If we went back to that bomb sight mode, combined with the current bomb dispersal, I think you'd see more people using heavies as they were intended. At least then people who don't normally drive bombers could hook up and fly a proper strike mission with some expectation of success.

    -DoK

[Karnak]

Hmmm.

I like the calibration and I like the bomb patterns, I just think there need to be targets that are worth hitting and a gameplay mechanism to get bombers higher, either forcefully or through encouragement.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Midnight
Pyro... I don't think either one of those factors will change dive-bombing tactics. Most of the players that do it don't expect to live and usually crash into whatever they were diving at anyway.

If you were to use eagl's idea of an angle limiter on heavy bombers that prevent them from dropping bombs when their plane is at or beyond a certain angle, that will stop the dive bombing Lancasters and B-17s.


ack-ack

[killnu]

Hope it's a small intake H model. Love the look of those early 38s

I'll take what ever they will give....
~S~

[Grimm]

I think a comprimise between the Current System and the Old system might be worth a try.

I like the system we have,  but it does seem to be too much for the casual bomber.    

Id like to see us needing to hold our speed, alt and course during the final run,  but a quick calibrate button would be nice.   Something that can be clicked for a last minute calibrate just before target.  

The Cross hair Idea is way cool,  but with a cheap joystick or perhaps if your getting a few years on you and you arnt that steady anymore it is too difficult for some guys to hold.

Remember why Guys used to fly so high?   Your bombsite was right on the money from 30k or 5k so alt didnt hinder your accuracy.   If you were Mega High, you had great survivability.  

Now Being High means you have a greater chance to miss and also your not as safe with the addition of the 163s and 262s.  Today you might as well be down low,  you have a better chance to hit, and your chances of dying are nearly the same.

[Karnak]

As I understand it, when calibrating it doesn't matter how much you wander as long as the start and end points are the same, or very nearly the same.

[Grimm]

Could be Karnak.

I do know that Hardware can change the difficulty from tests between sticks here at my place.  

I know HTC is looking at it from the "what will be the most fun for the most people"  angle.  

I might add,  Personaly I would like to see the Current method as a flight option as well as a quick calibrate.   I do like the system, but I know that plenty of folks find it too much to bother with.

[Edbert]

Originally posted by Karnak
Hmmm.

I like the calibration and I like the bomb patterns, I just think there need to be targets that are worth hitting and a gameplay mechanism to get bombers higher, either forcefully or through encouragement.

Like making B17s free if flown as singles and perking formations if you kill or die below 10-15K?

[Karnak]

Grimm,

True that.

Originally posted by Edbert MOL
Like making B17s free if flown as singles and perking formations if you kill or die below 10-15K?

I don't think this would have any effect other than making bombers rarer than they are now.

I also don't like the idea of perking a unit that is so essentially defenseless.

[Mitsu]

is Ki-84-I-Otsu with 5 perks planned?

[Cobra412]

I see what Ack Ack is getting at for the dive bombing.  I've only found one incident where a B-17 did  a dive bomb.  It was from a crew that were disposing of their ord before returning home after a knock it off call for the mission.  

They didn't say at what angle they were diving or at what speed.  I did find a site with an official WWII B-17 Manual that specifically stated that accelerations in the lateral and vertical would cause bombs to miss by fairly large values.

I'm not to familiar with the rack and release system of the B-17.  I do know that even with an F-15E if the jettison port select is wrong on the rack itself it can cause the munitions to hit the aircraft.  

If the B-17s racks slide to the bottom and then the weapon released you shouldn't have to much of an issue in dive bombing.  To steep of a dive angle though could cause the weapon to possibly hit the aft portion of the bomb bay or even worse hit the bottom turret gunner position.  Basically it all comes down to how the weapon is released and how it's affected by airflow once it comes clear of the bomb bay itself.

[mora]

I think the current bombing system would be just fine, If you were able to actually calibrate it right. Personally I've never been able to do this despite reading all the manuals and tutorials.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Pyro
 I'm sure you remember that the primary complaint about bombers was that they bombed from too high.

 LOL...... I`d be willing to bet that if dive bombing was eliminated along with low alt bombing or a degree limiter it wouldn`t last the 1st day before the BBS would fill up with"Bomber guns are too uber" or something concerning mid-alt bombing dweebs, etc.
  I say please save any more limiting for the TODamites.
  Quite frankly I think the limiting this and forcing that, etc. crap has gone too far in the MA.
  I`d like to see the old bomb site back, the fuel put back the way it was, etc. I also realize that there is a snowball`s chance in hell of this happening.
  I had previously (about the time of AHII prerelease) had the impression that the MA was becoming a testing ground for features that are to be used in TOD.  After reading how much time was spent on the discussion of TOD at the con I feel that my suspicions have been confirmed.
  I for one, but certainly not the only one, am not interested in having a list of hoops to jump through just to play the game. I also don`t wish to have to have a calculator and sliderule beside the puter to accomplish someone else`s idea of "fun".
  I say, give us the MA back and let the TODamites await the release of TOD.
  Gamey? Dweebie? .......maybe.
  LET THE DWEEB TIMES ROLL!

[MaddogJoe]

I don't have the time to learn to bomb in the big planes.... heck I don't have the time time to learn to fly my P38! The bomb calibration is something I just can't get right, so I don't use them. I'll dive bomb in A20's for my bomb runs.

I think if the calibration was eased up to a quick button like Grimm said would help, and I think the "angle" limiter wouldn't work, then you would just have B17's diving in, leveling out THEN dropping the bombs. An alt limiter would be nice tho