Does the P38 really suck, or is it just me?

[Urchin]

I had considered myself a decent stick, I usually fly the 109 and the 190.  I wanted to do some attack sorties, so I upped a P38 because it can carry a helluva lot of ordinance.  These are the conclusions I reached-

1.  The ordinance load really doesn't matter, because you probably won't make it to the target if any enemy plane shows up.

2.  If, perchance, you actually make it to the target, you will most likely compress and smack into the ground while attempting to bomb whatever you wanted to bomb.  This plane compresses worse than the 109 (much, MUCH worse).

3.  The plane actually climbs pretty well with the heavy ordinance load.  Without WEP, you will climb as fast as a 100%+DT 190A8.  

4.  I can't make the plane turn at all.  It seems to roll extremely slowly, the level speed is definately not all that hot.  A defensive barrel roll is not possible in this plane, at least not when I tried it.  I made a barrel roll, the LA5 that had swooped up my bellybutton at twice my speed handily followed me through it and blew my tail off.

Exactly how are you SUPPOSED to fly this plane?  It doesn't seem to turn well enough to be a turnfight, and it definately can't get fast enough to be a BnZ fighter.  With its poor roll rate and turning ability, I doubt I could even use this plane for E-fighting.  Anyway, if some folks want to post some useful information on how to fly the plane, please do.  I've probably given up on even trying it out anymore (going 0 and 4 on 4 sorties doesn't exactly endear me to a plane), but prehaps it could help someone that wants to fly it.

[Arcon]

Hitting a p-38 is like shooting a shotgun at a barndoor. It's a HUGE target >

I really wish AH had a p-38J. In WB, I never flew the L model because it sacrificed so much in performance.

I believe you must have 1-3 wingman or good CAP to survive a p38L flight.  It has nice "boosted" controls, but you better shut the engines down in a dive... The J model compressed even worse, but it seemed lighter and could do rope-a-dope tactics really nicely....

The only good p38 pilots I've seen had ALT.

ALT = Life

Good topic, hope others reply!

[Urchin]

No, after further study, I've concluded that the plane does in fact suck.  It sucks worse than just about any other plane I've flown in AH.  It can't turn, it can't dive, it can't run, the guns pretty much suck on it, and it can't take a hit to save its life.

[Naudet]

Urchin, the P38 is not bad, but u must take a bit time to get alt.

I did a sortie with Citabria once, and we climbed to 26K, from that alt the bird really got hot.

There are a few points u must take care of:

1. Compression, the P38 gets easy into them, from 450mph+ the elevator control is extremly hvy, i always use elevator trim to get out of such speeds. Or use the dive flaps.

2. Turning, the P38 is not that bad, but u have to sacrifice speed to do it, and u must pull out flaps 1 or 2 notches. This way it can turn with a F4U, but still SPits, NIKIs and ZEKEs are far better.

3. Alt is life, as in the FW190 u need an Alt and/or E advantage against most planes. The P38 also has the drawback that its level speed is not as high as that of a D9, LA7 or P51. Those birds also can dive much better. Against D9 and P51 slow break turn with flaps might help, but as always, a wingman is the best defense.

4. Situational Awareness, if u misjudge the situation, the P38 is a deathtrap. It is not such a forgiving plane as the NIKI or LA7. If u act stupid u die fast. Especially cause u will lose one of the following things to the 1st pings: horizontal stab or one eng.

[Urchin]

No, its not bad, but if I were flying a 109 or 190 against myself in a P38, the 109 or 190 would win every single fight.  

Maybe I've just gotten used to being able to do certain things that the P38 just doesn't do well.  I was flying a sortie a bit earlier and a Spit chased me around.  The only thing you can do with a Spit within 3.0k of you on your tail is run.  I couldn't make the guy overshoot to save my life, he shot off one of those little tails in the back before I ran away for good.  

Then I bounced an F6F that was vulching, I had to hose him for about 4 seconds before he exploded.  I'm used to diving in, taking a quick shot, and the enemy dies.  Then I had several planes chase me around for a while, but they all go bored and went back to vulching.  

After the enemy had captured the base, I was flying around and ran into another Spit.  Again, the only thing the P38 seems to do better than a Spitfire is run.  Couldn't turn well enough to get into a position for a snapshot, couldnt rope-a-dope him, I did manage to get on his tail once but he just went into a downward spiral I couldn't follow.  Another F6F decided that the Spit needed help, so he jumped in.  I ran away, but the P38 doesnt run away well enough, so I only got about d1.2 from him (where he was taking potshots, and HITTING).  I ran for a little while, he gave up so I turned around to try again.  We met in a HO merge, I pulled straight up at about d650 (I was going 300 mph), he pulled straight up behind me and shot out an engine in a snapshot.  Then he ended up on my tail, where I again tried (unsuccessfully) to barrel roll to get him to overshoot.  The move works about 90% of the time in a 109 or 190, it works about 0% of the time in the P38.  

I guess I'm just hopeless as a P38 pilot- I can't see anything I like about the plane besides its ordinance load, and since you likely won't live long enough to deliver it, that doesn't count.

[Naudet]

Urchin, if a spit is on ur 6 and u in P38, u cant do anythin than run.

But so it is when i fly the D9 i get seperation to prepare and attack, if he closes i barrel roll or scissor, than bug out using my superior accel and speed. I yet have not figured out how to manuever against a Spit a D3.0 on the 6 of my D9 without losing.

And to the barrel roll def, imagine the following, the P38 is a large tgt, not a tiny 109er or a small 190er. If the nme, simply hits the trigger he got a good chance of hitting u while u move.

Btw the D1.2 hits must have been a lag issue.

[Kingonads]

Urchin the P38 is not that bad it is a ok turner just like the 109G10 just dont get into sustained turns with anyone. It gets better the higher it goes from 20k to around 35k its great.  The other problem is that U R tring to fly it like a 109, its not a 109 or even close to it other than compression.  The 109G10 and 190D9 where designed to counter birds like the P38 and P47. A P38 will chew a 109F4,G2,G6 to pieces if flown properly.  I have seen Fester do things in that plane I didnt think where posible and he will tell U that Alt is life in that plane dont get caught below 10k in it, its a great buff hunter and high alt intercepter but not bad at the attk role just gotta do the high alt quick bomb release method.  

                           Hodo

[Wingnut_0]

You'd a thought differenty had you encountered one of those Twin Tail folks I did recently.  Can't remember the name but he'd pull up quickly, stalling the aircraft and cause it to snap nose down in a mear fraction of a second and you couldn't follow him at all like that.  

I know that's not really aircraft performance as it is taking a game to its limit..but oh well.

[MANDOBLE]

Urchin, dont forget the fuel loads. A 190A5 100% fuel is almost equivalent to a P38 50% fuel in range. I've flown this bird few times and found it far better than any 190, except D9. It will outturn, outclimb, outzoom your 190A/F everytime, and will outroll any 190 at hi speeds. Even more, it will score solid hits at >600 yards with no problem.

The main problem is the extremelly poor visibility and the compression. Beside that, P38L is, IMO, a great fighter.

[Vermillion]

Get the fight above 28k and you will see the P38 shine, its a great scenario plane. Or use it, as it was historically in the Pacific, against MUCH slower aircraft that you could use BnZ tactics with.

But your right, at middle to low altitudes, the P38 is totally outclassed by many of the most common planes in AH.

[Nifty]

not one of the regular P38 drivers replied to this.   too bad, I'm sure they could tell you a thing or two or ten.  

I can't fight in the P38, but I love divebombing in it.   Of course after I drop the eggs, I'm gonna get creamed by someone.

[38ruk]

hello all ,im not by any means an expert in the 38 but i do fly it extensively,i use it as a bNzer when i can .it does turn fight well for about 3 hard turns but the p38 seems to bleed of energy very fast so u better get the kill shot quick.as for roping i think the p38 is one of the best, given u have a bit more alt and e than any givin aircraft,its stall tends to be very managable compared to a single seat fight because of the counter rotation of the props, as for turning u need to use the rudder to roll the 38 i usually throw 1 noch at 220 and 2 under 200.if u dip below that u better want the guy bad cause your options are limited after that. belive it of not i have killed a few spits turning low at 180 mph with it but it happens rarely. fuel is also a big factor anything over 50% imo,kills the performance of the plane,and 25% makes it shine.compression is a problem that takes gettin used to ,but a never dive without my dive flaps,u have to use em, but make sure when u regain control u retract them cause they do bleed alot of E,like i said im no expert bt this is how i fly it. any one else has any pointer id like to see em thx 38RUK

[geistx]

Originally posted by Wingnut_0:
You'd a thought differenty had you encountered one of those Twin Tail folks I did recently.  Can't remember the name but he'd pull up quickly, stalling the aircraft and cause it to snap nose down in a mear fraction of a second and you couldn't follow him at all like that.  

I know that's not really aircraft performance as it is taking a game to its limit..but oh well.

I know what you mean.  I encountered Tac (can't remember his squadron) recently in a few encounters.  I was in a FW-190A8 and he taught me to respect the P38.  He handled it with incredible agility.  

[Karnak]

Urchin,

Only a very unlucky P-38 should get intercepted on the way to a strike.  Climb to 10,000ft and then level out.  Once the target is in sight dive to about 400mph. There is almost no way to stop it unless the enemy is set up to receive you.

If you try coming in low you are at a high risk of being shot down.

The P-38 is my rommate's favorite aircraft and I've gone around and around in debates with him about it. He counts it up there with the P-51D, Fw190D-9, La-7 and Bf109G-10 in speed.  I count it in with the P-47s, La-5FN, Bf109G-2, N1K2-J and Fw190As and F for speed. It zoom climbs very well and rolls great once it is at speed.  A slow P-38 is a dead P-38.

[Tac]

Urchin, a P-38 will eat any 190 (except the D9) with ease IF the 190 pilot does not use its superior speed to run to get separation or dive away.

Only a 109 G10 can actually control a fight vs a 38. The other 109's can only hope to turn and turn and dive away or try to run from it. Ask Mandoble and or the Assassin guys, all they do is run from my 38, then twist around and whack me. I hate them.  

Spits vs 38... thats a touchy one. If its a SpitV, you can always run or hammerhead it, the other spit is much more dangerous, as it can basically zoom and outdive the 38 with ease if the spit is co-e. The one thing I hate to run into is an alt adv. spit or a coalt/co-e spit. I try to either run straight from it after merge OR get it to turn tight to get into me to bleed his E...then my superior accel and initial dive speed will let me run. Yes, you can only RUN against the thing. Many spits however are not very good pilots and pull some very dumb stuff that lets you kill them, but run into Shane of 36DD and you're in serious crap.


"Can't remember the name but he'd pull up quickly, stalling the aircraft and cause it to snap nose down in a mear fraction of a second and you couldn't follow him at all like that."

Thats actually the use of flaps to flip the plane over. If you do it without flaps the plane will flip a lot slower (like, say, a 109 would). Another example would be the $#@$@# wing snap roll (which I think its a BUG) that happens whenever there is a g pull on the plane while the flaps are being deployed or retracted. When u fight a 38 and you see it roll faster than a 190, you'll be witnessing that thing.

Urchin, any kind of barrel roll or sciscoring rolls must be set up before you execute it. The 38 is not like the 190 or 109 that can swing around in an instant. And you will NOT get anything to overshoot a 38 if the planes are co-e . The 38 does not lose E by barrel rolling (unless you cut engine of course). Im sure you have noticed that in any other plane you can lose a LOT of speed or prevent your plane from getting to very high speeds in a dive by just pushing full rudder. That dont happen in the 38. Any barrel roll you do in a 109 using rudder you are making your plane lose E by the vertical aspect AND your rudder turning. The 38 will only lose its e by the vertical part...and you know how good the 38 zooms and climbs.

Want to barrel roll or make someone overshoot? TURN to lose your own E, get yourself at least 100mph slower than the other guy, set the guy up so that he has to gain more speed. a powerless dive while turning ensures you that the red cons will have to dive more, gain more E to get to you while you are still at the same speed. When they at d900 or so, turn sharply to 1 side and then barrel roll it. They will overshoot. La-7's and F4U's and 109's are easy pickings once you get them into this game.