190a5 tips?

[batdog]

Thinking about learning it this tour some. I fly the 205 alot so the cannon I think are similar? I fly the 47 abit so maybe the two are similar there in some manner? How you shift your fuel around..? I was thinking about using the foward tanks first? I know it makes a big difference on the 205 on how you use up your fuel...


 xBAT

[Saintaw]

Be preppared not being able to Run away  

Compared to all the other 190's in AH, this is the slower one(Slower than the 205 I think too). It has a verry nice Rollrate, a good initial turn at high speeds (comparatively, a good initial YAW too for snapshot rudder kicks), nasty flip/stalls at low speeds. It's the plane I take with me when I want to fight, I don't take it out when I plan on survival  

I also found this A5 the plane whith whom I can do hammerheads easily.(Pretty much unstable when you get on the top, but the right wing drops down nearly automaticaly).

It's a plane you want a wingman with you   (As I said: too slow for hit & run tactics).
Because of the good initial turn & good roll, if (more likely WHEN) I get defensive, I usualy play it going lower, faster, using quick vertical scisors.


Guns have an ok punch, too bad we can't have a 30mm loadout on this one <g>.

You need to ask Santa or Kirin, they , of course, know way more about that little beast than I do  

[Urchin]

On all the 190's, you want to use up the aft tank first.  This will get the CG moved forward, supposedly making the beast more nimble.  I typically get the aft tank down to 25%, then switch to the forward tank- when that runs out I switch back and fly home.  I'd heartily recommend loading 4 cannons on it, it will make a huge difference in your ability to make snapshots.  The A5 is the most manueverable 190- it rolls slightly slower than the A8, but acceleration, climbrate, and turning are all better than the heavier A8.  You can fly the 190 like a Jug and have some success in it, the two airplanes perform similarly.  The A5 is slower than the Jug, but it accelerates better.  Both airplanes have about the same initial turn, but the 190 will turn much better in a sustained turn.

[Apar1]

Strong advise on Urchins post, don't go low E fighting with the p47-D11, I highly recommend not to do that. P47 (even D25 and D30 with low fuel) with flaps 25-50% down will kick your butt in low E fight. But Urchin is right on the sustained E turns 190 does that well.

Main thing about 190a5 is that you should make maximum use of the roll rate. You can change direction faster than any other plane. You can make em overshoot most of the time. Problem is that as Saw said you can't run away from most planes, it's a dogfighter and I recommend wingman to increase surviveability. The fact that once in a furball (if you decide to go in) most of the times you can't run and have to fight, that's what makes it a fun plane to fly.

[ 10-02-2001: Message edited by: Apar1 ]

[Naudet]

A comment about the aft fuel tank, it really makes hammerheads, turning on the edge of stall much easier if that aft tank is dry 1st. If u use the standard tak procedure, the plane will get very very unstable when performing wing over/hammerheads moves.

I suggest HTC would change the fuel consumption autoprocedure on the FW series for the next build.

[R4M]

Some fast thoughts, and some kicks to Saw    

Be preppared not being able to Run away    

Not really true. the Fw190A5 runs as much as, or more than, the spitfire V or IX, 109F4,109G2,109G6,P47D, P38L,C205,C202, Yak9t at any alt under 20000feet

The 190A5 top speed at the deck is 335mph, but at 6K is 370-375mph. At 23K tops around 415mph. Is one helluva fast kite for its time frame (early 1943), and is faster than the Fw190A8 over 3K.


Compared to all the other 190's in AH, this is the slower one(Slower than the 205 I think too).

False, Saw...the Fw190A8 is faster than the Fw190A5 only under 3000feet. And the C205 is slightly slower on the deck (according to HTC's charts), and the A5 wins speed faster than C205 with alt.

It has a verry nice Rollrate, a good initial turn at high speeds (comparatively, a good initial YAW too for snapshot rudder kicks), nasty flip/stalls at low speeds. It's the plane I take with me when I want to fight, I don't take it out when I plan on survival    

Yep the A5 shares the magnific roll of all 190s, and has a very nice hispeed turn. The stalls are not so nasty once you learn not to go under 225mph IAS in this plane. It is the one and only secret in the A5: NEVER go under 200mph IAS unless strictly neccessary.


It's a plane you want a wingman with you     (As I said: too slow for hit & run tactics).
Because of the good initial turn & good roll, if (more likely WHEN) I get defensive, I usualy play it going lower, faster, using quick vertical scisors.

I use fw190A5 as lonewolf (hell I use the A8 as lonewolf too    ), and is MORE survivable than the A8. You just must remember that if you want to flee, you DONT go under 5000feet. You can tangle in close fight with almost anything but a niki ,a zero, a C202 or a spit and expect to win the fight. In short, it can outmaneouver in a close fight anything it can't outrun.


It also has one thing wich is many times forgotten...at low altitudes (under 6000feet) this little beast has an AMAZING climbrate&acceleration, and up to 18K it has a very acceptable climbrate&acceleration too. In short, down on the deck you can close fight with almost ANYTHING in the game using a mix of its great acceleration, initial turn and rollrate. This plane is simply outstanding in rolling scissors, and when light on fuel its an outstanding dogfighting machine. Just use the vertical ,keep the speed over the 200 mph line, and use intelligent ACM instead of flat turns and stallfight. The mix of roll and initial turn of the A-5 Wurger makes this bird a very nice head to head dogfighter.

just remember that if you fall down to the deck your speed is not that great. but at 3-5K, it can run away from many planes in AH    

It's not a very much used plane in the MA because being marginally faster than a spit, it's dead meat if it starts to turn. It could be syntetized in the phrase "it can't turn, and it can't run"-and that leads people to think that the A5 is the worse of the 190s. It requires some good ACM to extract the best from this plane, but I'll fly it over a spit IX or a 190A8 any day  

[ 10-02-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]

[batdog]

What about the weapon load out? 2 cannon or the 4 cannon package?


xBAT

[R4M]

Always 4. It means bigger punch for snapshots, for a minor reduction of roll inertia, and acceleration.

P.S. to fly a Fw190A5 like a Jug is a crime. This plane is WAY nimbler than the P47D, has much better acceleration under 15000feet, and doesnt pack 8 50 cals. Not to mention the much better dive&zoom of the Jug. the P47 and 190A5 are completely different birds and should be flown differently.

[ 10-02-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]

[Apar1]

The mix of roll and initial turn of the A-5 Wurger makes this bird a very nice head to head dogfighter.

Its a good fighter for frontal crossing shots as a result of its ACM capability and the way you and up in turns against many other planes. I would advise not to go pure HO in the 190a5 because you have poor survivability chance doing that. In most fights against better turning planes like the Spit-V, a6m, N1K2, 109F4, etc you will have very small windows of opportunity for lead shots. Against very agile planes the only time you'll get on their 6 is on the first merge, and maybe on the first turn, after that it'll be crossing shots some with a pretty big lead angle. Anyway that is my experience.

 

P.S. to fly a Fw190A5 like a Jug is a crime. This plane is WAY nimbler than the P47D, has much better acceleration under 15000feet, and doesnt pack 8 50 cals. Not to mention the much better dive&zoom of the Jug. the P47 and 190A5 are completely different birds and should be flown differently.

My earlier statement on not trying to dogfight the p47-D11 (and also D25, D30 with low fuel state) is based on the fact that the 190 doesn't fly too well below 200 mph, where allot of other planes still handle pretty well (even the 109). IMO 190 is not a "stall" fighter like some other planes especially not on the deck. You can make very good hammerheads in it if you take the fight to the vertical though, but that depends on your E state compared to the adversaries.

I think the 190a5 turns best in speeds around 250 mph and not 200 mph.

[ 10-03-2001: Message edited by: Apar1 ]

[R4M]

Originally posted by Apar1:
Its a good fighter for frontal crossing shots as a result of its ACM capability and the way you and up in turns against many other planes. I would advise not to go pure HO in the 190a5 because you have poor survivability chance doing that. In most fights against better turning planes like the Spit-V, a6m, N1K2, 109F4, etc you will have very small windows of opportunity for lead shots. Against very agile planes the only time you'll get on their 6 is on the first merge, and maybe on the first turn, after that it'll be crossing shots some with a pretty big lead angle. Anyway that is my experience.

When I say Head to Head fighter I mean one-vs-one, not HOs  .


 

Originally posted by Apar1:
My earlier statement on not trying to dogfight the p47-D11 (and also D25, D30 with low fuel state) is based on the fact that the 190 doesn't fly too well below 200 mph, where allot of other planes still handle pretty well (even the 109). IMO 190 is not a "stall" fighter like some other planes especially not on the deck. You can make very good hammerheads in it if you take the fight to the vertical though, but that depends on your E state compared to the adversaries.

I think the 190a5 turns best in speeds around 250 mph and not 200 mph.

yep, the A5 turns the best around 240-260mph, BUT it can defend very well itself down to 200mph IAS for short spans of time. I regularly let the 190A5 go down to 175mph and it still can do some nice work if the enemy tries to stallfight. But if you keep the plane over 200mph, you are relatively safe. I put that limit for close fighing in the A8 as 240mph and the in the D9 as 225mph

My comments about the Fw190A5 compared with the P47 were directed at Urchin's post, not at yours. Still ,you say exactly what I always try to convince people to not to think about the 190A5. The A5 is a GREAT dogfighter. NOT a stallfighter but a GREAT dogfighter, apart of a quite nice E-fighter. You can stay and fight it out in a close fight against anything but a pure TnB-er ,and even against TnBers, and if they are badly flown, you can easily outmaneouver them-

[Apar1]

CC, S!    

[Urchin]

Yes, Ram, I know that the 190A5 is more manueverable than a P47 is.  However, if someone has never flown it before, but has experience flying the P47, I think it is quite valid to tell them to fly it like they would a P47 and they'll do alright.  In my experience, good P47 drivers stay fast (above 225 mph...), try not to turn much (which isn't so much of a crime with the 190A5), and know that they need to start off with a height or speed advantage to win most fights.  All of the above also applies to 190A5 drivers.  Sure, there are differences, like if it is a 1v1 (which is aout .05% of the fights in the MA) against any US fighter but the P38 and the F6F you want to be turnfighting.  Even still, you can take a well-flown 190A5 and put it up against a well-flown LA7 or N1K2 and the 190 driver may as well bend over, grab his ankles, and kiss his bellybutton goodbye.  Same in a 3 or 4 on 1 situation... actually the A5 isn't a bad plane to have then.  You'll still die, but you might surprise a couple N1K2s and kill them.

Anyway, what would you suggest I tell him to fly it like?  I think telling him to fly it like a Jug is quite a bit more valid than saying... "Oh, it turns better than a Jug does, fly it like a Spitfire!".  No, I'm not saying you said that either.

[ 10-03-2001: Message edited by: Urchin ]

[R4M]

Urchin, all the planes can be flown successfully "like a P47". Even a Zero, or a Spit V.

What I meant is that to fly a 190A5 like a Jug is to waste its potential as fighter. This thread was started by someone wanting to learn to fly the Fw190A5.And "Fly it like a jug" is not a good advice, nor a good way to fly the Fw190A5, IMO.

no pun intended, of course-