Author Topic: bf 109g plus a good turn fighter as well  (Read 967 times)

Offline shrimpo

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bf 109g plus a good turn fighter as well
« on: December 15, 2001, 01:29:00 PM »
Can any one out there give me any tips, on the bf109g,  :)it seem to have a good set of cannons with it like the 20mm and the30mm,in the nose,   :p
I have not been fighting that long and need some good tips,
on B&Z and a good plane for turn fighting.

Offline Wilbus

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bf 109g plus a good turn fighter as well
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2001, 04:16:00 AM »
Hi there Paul, welcome to AH  :)

The 109 is a very good plane, poor manuverabilty in high speed wich makes it hard to kill people who turn when you B&Z them. Other then that, it's a terrific plane. The G10 is my favorite, it is the fastest and climbs best. All 109's can turn, better then many people think. Of course, don't turn with spits and such but with other E fighters it usually works good.

Use the extreeme climb rate in the 109 to fight, dive down, then climb up again and set up another pass. NEVER fly it with Gondolas, you will loose everything the 109 stands for, climb rate and speed will go away.
If you decide to use 30mm cannon instead of 20mm, make sure you ONLY fire the 30mm cannon, the 30mm shells and the 13mm rounds have a way different trajectory and if you fire both it is very likely that only your 13mm hit.

Let me know if you need more help or if you wanna go in the TA and fly some  :)
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline Kweassa

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bf 109g plus a good turn fighter as well
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2001, 02:48:00 AM »
* On the matter of MG151/20 Gondolas on the "Gustav" series of 109s..

 There are lot of planes which climb slow, turn worse, and inferior in top speed compared to Bf 109s. But with enough awareness about what goes on around, they manage to survive despite harsh odds.

 In my opinion, the same thing can be said about the gondolas. They slow down your rate of roll, effect climbing rates, add drag ... etc etc.. but there are advantages as much as there are disadvantages, and whether or not one outweighs the other sorely depends on the preference of the pilot.

 For instance, personally, I've had good success taking off in a G10 with gondolas in a low alt base-defense sorties against enemy carrier based planes. Gondolas, effect performance, but in a situation like this the G10 even with its performance hampered by extra guns still has an edge more than enough. Still climbs better and still fast enough. Or, when one chooses to patrol near sectors of heavy enemy activity, the odds are there will be an enemy buff nearby, and the only one who can get to it in time is probably the pilots in 109s.  :rolleyes:

 It really is a matter of one's taste. If I had to fly 1 vs 1, I'd definately fly without the extra weapons. But since the MA is rarely - if ever - frequent in 1 vs 1 fight, taking extra ammo while keeping your sense heightened to compensate for the lost performance may seem a worthy alternative - at least, in my case I find the gondolas worthy enough.

 ..

* Back to the original question...

 I am not in anyway a skilled pilot  :D , just another average Joe. But after experimenting with lots of planes for a long time, it just happened that one day, I started upping in 109s - G2, G6s, G10s.. and after that day, I couldn't fly any other plane.   :)

 The 109Gs, with some clever rudder assists and angle/Energy management, can turn surprisingly well for an energy fighter. Flying the 109s in a 'timid' or "pure BnZ" style, contrary to popular belief, isn't very successful, since 109s have horrible high speed handling.

 Thus, 109s render great success when you fly it more aggressively. Of course, the more you are aggressive, the larger the danger of being bounced upon grows. You need careful timing and calculation on the odds surrounding you. How long may I chase the target down? Would it be safe to engage that feller? Would that high bogey chase me? And  if he does, what will I do?... etc are all part of the careful planning before you enter a fight in a 109. And you have to make sure to promptly break off from the fight when the limit you have set is broken.

 To even it all out, 109s are "Hybrid" style of BnZers. They'll never shoot down someone in a pure high speed pass in the way P-51s and P-47s are capable of(unless it's a total surprise). You dive down with speed, go co-alt with enemy with that speed, engage aggressively in a semi-turnfight with careful E management for a limited short time, then break away and climb high.


 Words of wisdom on 109s  :)

 
Quote
"The 109 is a rapier, quickly in, quickly out"

 
Quote
"Think of yourself as a monkey on the ceiling with a hammer, wait until some unwary fellow isn't looking, then swoop down and smack him on the head, quickly climb back up again, repeat as necessary." - from ASSASINS' 'Gustav for Dummies'

[ 12-17-2001: Message edited by: Kweassa ]

Offline gatt

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bf 109g plus a good turn fighter as well
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2001, 10:38:00 AM »
There are not only the Turn&Burn and Boom&Zoom tactics. Hit&Climb better describes what you have to do with the 109.

You can even dive on your prey, however you must not build to much E and go below the enemy. IMHO, the best thing to do is dive (controlling the speed), level, attack, climb. Then repeat, provided there are not other threats in the area. Just MHO.
"And one of the finest aircraft I ever flew was the Macchi C.205. Oh, beautiful. And here you had the perfect combination of italian styling and german engineering .... it really was a delight to fly ... and we did tests on it and were most impressed." - Captain Eric Brown

Offline Soda

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bf 109g plus a good turn fighter as well
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2001, 12:18:00 PM »
I agree with Kweassa.  I fly with gondolas for firepower when I think I'll see more snapshot opportunities or have to hit crossing targets.  If I think I can saddle up more then I'll leave the gondolas in the hanger.  Without gondolas the 109's have poor snapshot capabilities on crossing targets.

The 109's are good BnZ'rs, you just have to watch your speed closely.  The difference between a 109G10's high alt cruising speed and full compression is very small.  Once you are in compression you have given up advantage and are recovery mode.  The earlier models of 109 are not bad TnB'rs, but too many planes in the MA will tear them apart in turning so it's best not to get in the habit of turning with anything.

-Soda

Offline cp52

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bf 109g plus a good turn fighter as well
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2001, 09:23:00 AM »
Paul- I flew the 109K4 in AW and went to the G10 here.  Tried 30mm but it has such a low ammo load (and I am such a poor shot) that I couldn't kill anything with it.
Also, had issue with compressability that others have mentioned - I was playing a lot of lawndarts.  I noticed that most of my fights wound up under 5000 and that the LA7 is the fastest plane under 5000 (and I have to run a lot!) so I went to that and found that it does better with compressability, has good punch with 3 20mm's, seems to turn ok and is fast.  May want to try it?

Offline Vector

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bf 109g plus a good turn fighter as well
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2001, 09:59:00 AM »
S!
Not a big deal, but LA-7 isn't fastest at the deck. And some other fighters don't come too far behind. Top ten at the deck (P-47D-30 needs to be tested after 300hp WEP boost):
WEP/mph:
1. Tempest 386
2. LA-7 380
3. F4U-4 378
4. 190D-9 375
5. Typhoon 370
6. P-51D 367
7. 109G-10 366
8. TA-152 361
9. F4U-1 358
10. P-51B 358