Author Topic: Karnak! The Ki84 is not dead yet! (Read 1375 times)

Karnak · « **Reply #15 on:** November 17, 2004, 01:32:23 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Shane
it is when that's all you know...

Exactly. It is boring to fight against people who have such a huge advantage and only know how to make a single pass and run. If the Ki-84 had narrowed the speed gap a bit it would make it harder for the boring "one badly executed pass and run" types to run with impunity and at will.

As it is, it does no better than the N1K2-J in that regards and the boring "one pass and run" people still find the US side in a late war Pac setup to be their ideal environment.

Shane · « **Reply #16 on:** November 17, 2004, 02:17:34 PM »

i find plenty of higher japanese planes bnz me and running after they blow it...

and i'm in a lower hog, or even a d11 jug which is hardly a speed demon.

Karnak · « **Reply #17 on:** November 17, 2004, 02:50:12 PM »

Well, they may run for a short time, but if you give pursuit you'll be overtaking them after no more than a minute or two. That is an option that no Japanese fighter has. I didn't expect the Ki-84 to change that either. I just thought it would make it a bit harder for the US fliers to run by eliminating their ability to massively mess up and still get off scott free. I figured it would limit them to normal level mess ups while getting away with it. Sadly it was not to be.

That is not my preference. I only try to witdraw if the odds have gotten stupid. I'll fight a 2 or 3 on 1. I'll probably lose, but I'll fight.

Slash27 · « **Reply #18 on:** November 17, 2004, 02:51:30 PM »

What did I do to deserve THAT Slash??? Heya Andi:D

As it is, it does no better than the N1K2-J in that regards and the boring "one pass and run" people still find the US side in a late war Pac setup to be their ideal environment.

Your posts show me that you havent flown the plane in combat. More than once anyway. If you're not going to fly here then move along. We have enough trouble in here with out some one who has written the place off dropping in to stir the "Axis/Allies" whinefest up anymore than it already is.

The Ki-84 is very capable. Period.

Krusty · « **Reply #19 on:** November 17, 2004, 02:56:55 PM »

The Ki84 is as uber as any non-uber plane can get.

I almost feel slightly ashamed when I use it. Almost. It's THAT good. I'd never be caught dead in a SpitV if there was anything else to fly, but give me options and I'll choose the Ki84 almost all the time.

Karnak · « **Reply #20 on:** November 17, 2004, 02:57:37 PM »

Slash27,

A) The post was addessed to me.

B) I have almost 100 kills in the thing and for me to have done that in two weeks means that I am flying a lot more that I have been in the last two years.

C) I popped into the CT for about half an hour, flew two Ki-84 sorties and one C-47 sortie to the uncapturable airfield.

My squad does not fly in the CT, and I have been trying to figure out how to use the Ki-84 in AH despite the fact that it is slow as crap. The CT is a very, very bad environment to try to do so as the fights are few and the flights long, especially in a slow plane like the Ki-84.

In short, go take a flying leap.

TequilaChaser · « **Reply #21 on:** November 17, 2004, 02:58:22 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Slash27

Your posts show me that you havent flown the plane in combat. More than once anyway. If you're not going to fly here then move along. We have enough trouble in here with out some one who has written the place off dropping in to stir the "Axis/Allies" whinefest up anymore than it already is.

them there be some strong words......

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #22 on:** November 17, 2004, 03:24:03 PM »

Sometimes the "CT" stands for Combat Theater.

Sometimes the "CT" stands for Combatative and Threatening.

Depends on the day of the week, phases of the moon...........
How much they've had to drink..................

Just let em sleep it off TC.

Inyo · « **Reply #23 on:** November 17, 2004, 03:44:21 PM »

The lack of top speed isn't problem, high speed handling of KI84 is.
F4U, F6F, F4F, FM2, P38, P47, they'll all turn inside you if you come into fight with anything above 250mph. Not even trim will help you. Before speed drops you'll be dead against any good pilot.

To win you have to merge with 250 max and go first turn with zero throttle, drop flaps and you'll have your kill. Throttle management is very important.

If they have significant E adv, sticks like Shane will try to rope you, but often, good climb abilities of KI84 helps you to follow up. If you're less than 600yds bellow when he reverses on top, he won't be able to get angle on you on the way down.

Also watch the dead zone between 10 and 14k alt. MAN pressure drops there and you won't have the performance to outclimb the faster bandit.

Karnak · « **Reply #24 on:** November 17, 2004, 04:22:18 PM »

Inyo,

Turn off Combat Trim and the high speed turning problem goes away. With Combat Trim on the Ki-84 cannot pull a blackout at 300mph. With Combat Trim off the Ki-84 can pull a blackout at 500mph.

I have watched the climb indicator and the airspeed indicator and I cannot tell a difference as the manifold pressure changes. In the Spit XIV it is very easy to tell, but in the Ki-84 it seems not to be modeled.

Inyo · « **Reply #25 on:** November 17, 2004, 04:44:38 PM »

Even with trimmed KI84, high speed instantanious turn rate is worse than that of most allied planes. At 275 is about equal, at 250 is better.
What I'm saying is that most merges occur at max level speed and good stick in allied ride will use this against you.

Climb rate drops for about 750fpm in dead zone. Didn't check about the speed.

Krusty · « **Reply #26 on:** November 17, 2004, 05:08:19 PM »

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=134549

Note where the boost drops. The Ki84 does best between 4k and 12k, and then again from 20k to 23k.

Where the boost drops, the climb drops, as well, but that's a general relationship, I didn't make recordings of the climb rate (kind of hard to do when it's pegged)

ergRTC · « **Reply #27 on:** November 17, 2004, 06:40:33 PM »

You know, that f6f is way undermodeled.

It cant even outclimb a zero, and the nik kicks its arse up to 8k in climb rate. It cant turn with any japanese plane below 300 mph, and it doesnt get a speed advantage over anything but the zero until 11k for the nik and 15k for the ki. The nik has 4 monster cannons and all it has is those machine guns.

Yeah, we could all whine about a plane. Why you guys ever thought they would give you a plane that had 8 cannons, outclimbed a spit 14, outhandled a zero, and performed instant rolls at 500 mph is really beyond comprehension.

Grow up

The 84 is a nice plane, has personality, is a good flyer, has decent guns, climbs like a bat out of hell, and can hold its own in a turn fight. What did you want?

Slash27 · « **Reply #28 on:** November 17, 2004, 07:40:34 PM »

What did you want?

Another reason to whine?

Grits · « **Reply #29 on:** November 17, 2004, 08:23:44 PM »

What Erg said. The Ki84 is a great plane that can easily hold its own against anything short of a Spit 14 or a Temp.