Karnak! The Ki84 is not dead yet!

[Shane]

i'm interested in seeing how it holds up to the spit5/9...

and of course, the la5/7.

[Karnak]

ergRTC,

You must have a differnent F6F-5 than I do.  The F6F-5 is faster than all Japanese aircraft at sea level.  Not as significantly as the F4U by any means, but it is faster.

I'll agree that it isn't comfortably faster though.

What I wanted was a Japanese fighter that would make it so that the F4U was faster, but not comfortably faster.


As for your other bull****, grow up.  You're being an ******* for even suggesting that I asked for, or complained about the vast majority of things you mention.  I have never claimed it climbed too slowly, that it was undergunned or that it should perform instant rolls at 500mph.  As it was originally I thought it rolled too slowly.  Apparently Pyro came to the same conclusion.  I also thought that it's elevator heaviness was overdone, but Widewing pointed out that Combat Trim was causing that and I've said nothing but good things about it's elevator authority since.  The only thing that I have complained about was the speed and from that you some how get that I wouldn't be happy with it unless it climbed better than a Spitfire Mk XIV and had eight cannons?  You're an idiot.

It is what it is and I am trying to learn how to use it.  This involves a considerable ammount of unlearning how to fight in the Mosquito as they are very different aircraft.  The fact that I don't wish to be used as target practice by F4U-1Cs and P-51Ds does not mean I think that the AH Ki-84 is useless, just not something I want to fly against CT fliers who like to fly "historically", e.g. chicken****, without regards to their mission or wingmen.

Karnak's Ki-84-I-Ko rating:

Climb and Acceleration: Good
Rollrate: Very good
Low Speed turning: Very Good
High Speed Turning: Average
Speed: Below Average
Firepower: Above Average
Ordinance: Average
Visibility: Very Good
Fuel Endurance: Good
Durability: Average

[Redd]

Originally posted by Karnak
So?

The N1K2-J did all those things too, plus has better firepower, better manuverability and better high speed handling.

Why the Ki-84 is the same speed as the N1K2 at sea leval and faster up high makes no sense.  It is using the same engine at a lower power rating.

The Ki-84 will not do anything at all to help deal with the F4U.  They will still be absolutely immune to the Japanese and that is an unfortunate fact.

We got a  early 1943 prototype Ki-84 to fight the 1944 and 1945 USN and USMC with.

I'll not waste my time playing target drone for the over modeled US aircraft.  Sorry.

Karnak,

In a 1-1 Co-e the Ki-84 dances all over any of the blue planes (assuming roughly equivalent pilot skill)

Ok The hog has a running "out"  but hey , it's totally outclassed in just about every other aspect . (High speed turn rate the exception, and that doesn't last for long)

If the Ki-84 comes in with E adv on any of the blue planes it should win period.

So in it's place in history in the CT , it does pretty damn well , I really can't see what all the fuss is about.

Your not happy because it doesn't  outclimb, outurn , AND outrun the F4u ?   to quote the wonderful Mr. Loaf -  2 out of 3 ain't bad    

[ergRTC]

Wow that sounds like a much different plane then the one you have been complaining about.   All I have to say is whatever karnak.

I am including the speed pics, I included a black line as a suspected/guessed at performance of the ki.  Not sure about the deck speed of the ki but I heard it was 333.

Oh yeah, that on the deck speed advantage of the f6f.  HOLY SH## BATMAN why havent I been taking advantage of that!

[CurtissP-6EHawk]

Originally posted by Karnak
The Ki-84 is no faster than the N1K2-J is.  It is more than 15mph slower than the Fw190A-5 at sea level.  It is 30mph slower than the F4U-1s at sea level.  It is 44mph slower than the P-51D at sea level.

Until HTC posts charts for it I have to go off of published engine data to test critical alts, and right now the Ki-84 doesn't seem to be capable of hitting 388mph at it's best altitude.  The best I could get out of it was 384mph.  Not only did HTC use the slowest data there is, the AH Ki-84 can't even hit those speeds being 1mph slow at sea level and 4mph slow at 21,000ft.

It did absolutely nothing to reduce the speed gap and that is why I will not fly it in the CT.  I find getting bored and zoomed to death by massively faster aircraft to be tedius and unenjoyable.

There is always the DA, MA. If you feal froggy, try  PF (where the Ki-84Ic..30mm wing guns...rule with speed and climb)

http://www.vmf312.neptune.com

HOWDY JESTER!!!!

[Karnak]

ergRTC,

The Ki-84's deck speed is 323mph.  Pyro said it's speed is 324mph at sea level and 388mph at best altitude.  The fastest sustained I've gotten it is 323mph at sea level and 384mph at 21,000ft.  I'm not sure what Pyro has it's best altitude set to.

It's climb rate, at sea level, with full fuel is aboput 3,750fpm.  With 50% how most people fly it the climb is just barely over 4,000fpm at sea level.  I assure you the climb rate drops off faster than you're guessing.

If that is how you think the Ki-84 performs you are giving it too much respect.

Late War Pacific Setup Aircraft Speeds at Sea Level in AH2 given by the E6B:

F4U-4:
WEP: 376mph
MIL: 354mph

P-51D:
WEP: 367mph
MIL: 355mph

F4U-1D:
WEP: 357mph
MIL: 343mph

F4U-1C:
WEP: 357mph
MIL: 343mph

P-38L:
WEP: 343mph
MIL: 332mph

P-47D-40:
WEP: 343mph
MIL: 330mph

F6F-5:
WEP: 330mph
MIL: 315mph

N1K2-J:
WEP: 325mph
MIL: 314mph

Ki-84-I-Ko:
MIL: 323mph

A-20G:
WEP: 318mph
MIL: 313mph

Ki-61-I-Tei:
WEP: 314mph
MIL: 306mph

FM2:
WEP: 301mph
MIL: 293mph

A6M5b:
MIL: 288mph

Ki-67:
MIL: 284mph

B-26B:
MIL: 272mph

B-24J:
MIL: 232mph


CurtissP-6EHawk,

The Ki-84-Ic never saw combat.  Only a very few were built, less than five maybe.  IL-2:FB has some screwy modeling and the Ki-84 is way overmodeled there.  The game seems to way over favor 30mm cannon.  With the Ki-84-Ia (two Ho-5 20mm cannon and two Ho-103 12.7mm guns) I couldn't shoot down a single Me323.  With the Ki-84-Ib (four Ho-5 20mm cannon) I could just barely shoot one Me323 down.  With the Ki-84-Ic (two Ho-105 30mm cannon and two Ho-5 20mm cannon) I could shoot an Me323 down with a quater second burst, and easily destroy a flight of four Me323s.  30mm cannon hit harder for sure, but not that much harder.

[Karnak]

OK, I got the Ki-84 to sustain 387mph at 20,950ft with 8 minutes of fuel left at X2 fuel burn.


Restested and it will sustain 386mph at 20,950ft with 18 minutes of fuel left at an x2 fuel burn rate.

Only 2mph shy of Pyro's 388 intneded.  Still, I'd rather it erred on the high side.

[GRUNHERZ]

Karnak the Ki84 is vastly better than Niki.

[Karnak]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Karnak the Ki84 is vastly better than Niki.

I agree that it is better,  but not vastly better.  The Ki-84 is slightly better overall.  When I posted saying that the N1K2 was more manuverable it was v2.01 Patch 1 and the Ki-84 had not yet had it's roll rate boosted.  I also did not know about turning off Combat Trim to fix the heavy elevator problem.

[Jester]

Hey Hawk!

How goes it? You got "OUR" plane built yet?

You got stock in PF?  

!

[Slash27]

Pyro

In the last 2.01 patch, we’re just going to continue to make some fixes and there are some performance issues with the Ki-84 that I plan to change.

Happy Thanksgiving Karnak.

[Karnak]

Thanks Slash27.  I hope you had a good Thanksgiving as well.

I am curious as to what will be changed.  Hopefully we'll see next week and I'll have a operable computer the week after so I can try it myself.