honest no BS assestment of strat factory logic and actual coordinated player usage

[Citabria]

ah2 strat system is like playing football with no endzones. there is nothing that really needs defending outside of running out of total number of bases.

I want the ability in the new terrain editor to create the origional strat factory system so I can reinstall it in ah2 maps I create:

single unresuppliable strategic factories (1 per strat per country)
unresuppliable HQ
single unresuppliable city per country
no zone bases
all country fields resupplied by these factories no matter the distance
resupply working on airfields and v fields only

the origional system (256x256 map): all country fields (including captured fields)supplied by a single set of strategic factories and a city and 1 hq. none resuppliable. all strat targets at all fields came up in 30 minutes with undamaged factories even on captured fields.

because of the simplicty of it players understood how it worked.

because all strat targets at all fields resupplied in 30 minutes unless strat factories were hit it made sense to players strategically to hit the factories.

1 strat target per item per country made sense and made resets happen because the country that gained a territorial advantage actually had a real advantage by movign their factories from the front. The russians and americans did this and it was a serious advantage having factories out of bomber range.

Hq could not be supplied. this was the lynchpin behind what made strategic bombing worthwhile. because knocking down the city and then the HQ for an hour made the 2 hour mission deep into enemy territory worthwhile. because the defending side knew if it lost hq they couldnt get it back in 5 minutes they thought ahead and watched for incoming threats intercepting high flying buffs with prop driven aircraft. it was somthing vital to defend and vital to destroy because it gave one side an advantage.




fast forward to the current strategic system:
zone bases and unconnected captured fields on 256 maps

it rendered the strat system into a novelty. somthign to hit but it didnt matter if you did. it was easier to capture the zone base than to hit the factory and in small maps there was no reason whatsoever to hit strat factories except to see them blow up.

resupply delt the biggest blow to strategic bombing. primarily because a 1 hour hq mission with escort and large formation of bombers would only destroy an hq for 5 minutes even if the city was at 0%

with me163s swarming all over a vast area around hq the defender has ample time for a coherent defense.

heres the lynchpin that proves the point:

all strat factories on mindanao are disconnected on the northeast and south countries and no one has noticed. only the west country has a workign strat factory system. it proves it right there. its broke and to confusing and un needed for anyone to notice. except someone who notices when the b24 windshield is not proportioned right and the pitot tubes on the top of the nose are missing.

[crims]

Nice Idea.    I dont think it would be applied. How long would they be down, as long as the map was up ? If so its alittle unfair, The late night or early morning When not many are on Buff run,for it to be down all day. I think something in the middle would be nice.






Crims
479th Raiders

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Citabria
all strat factories on mindanao are disconnected on the northeast and south countries and no one has noticed. only the west country has a workign strat factory system. it proves it right there. its broke and to confusing and un needed for anyone to notice. except someone who notices when the b24 windshield is not proportioned right and the pitot tubes on the top of the nose are missing.

That is pretty damning.

I've long held that the current strat was pointless becuase it had no noticable effect and what you said here just goes to prove it.

I also agree with you that the very simple original AH v1.00 strat worked much better than what we have now.

[Citabria]

the fuel only killable to 75% is a direct bandaid to the unresupplied captured fields.

when all fields were all being resupplied within 30 minutes killing the fuel was a temporary problem at a base. but because of this system the fuel refinery and even killing fuel bunkers at a field is not somthing worth bothering to do since the amount of damge that must be done does not disable the enemy very much.

its a domino effect.

they had the strat system right for gameplay the first time.

[Pongo]

Is that true about the strat on mindano..
lol thats hillarios.
I dont doubt it though. It really is useless.

[Howitzer]

As far as I'm concerned they can leave the fuel model where it is.  Too easy to kill the fuel at a base and completely shut it down, especially with a burn multiplier of 2.  The pork and auger 38s and the dive bombing lancs have resorted to hitting the more hardened fighter hangars   =)

[Tilt]

A very valid point................ bombers are being taken out of any role bar low level air field attrition.

Strat as a functioning reward based target is not seen as fun to bombers and as cit points out they care so little for it they do not see when its broke


For me HTC could move on..............

Land grab should be land grab not airfield pork and grab...........

If bombers are required to clear  numerous towns that represent the land grab.............and  go deep into enemy territory to score high points and penalise an enemies logistics.......... I am all for it.

lets get GV's fighting in towns and cities

lets get strat deciding how much fuel/troops/ facilities have..........

bring back depots!!!!!!!!! (loved the concept of depots........these should be our towns scatterred all over the map as little dots that must be captured to grab land)

[GreenCloud]

agree Fester...


the hQ thing is no fun at all..who will bom it now..


BUt you coudl say..bring a force large enuff to kill surounding barracks?



Would love to Kill LGhey 7s factories; )

[streetstang]

HT had a nice strat system going. Everything was connected, everything had an impact on something. When that changed and why is beyond me.

The fact that you can't take a base down beyond 75% fuel is one thing Id like to see go. As fester said, its sort of like a bandaid. Its also pretty gamey. Thats a word I dont use often but I think it fits here better than any other right now. There is no way that a base should be able to maintain 3/4ths of its fuel capacity. I can see 25%, I can even understand why there would be a wall hit once 25% was reached. This is coming from someone who bascily only every flys fighters.

[Kweassa]

A very valid point indeed. We do need an attrition-bases strat system - no matter how one puts it, that is the only way the strats will mean anything.

 Strats must effect a country on a wide-scale, with very huge impact. Seeing enemy planes targetting your fuel refinery or factory should be something much more terrible and fearful than a band of planes knocking down town buildings and running a goon in.

[straffo]

The 75% limit on fuel porking is needed because the point in this game is combat not porking
25% with a 2.0 fuel burn multiplier is a gaming no go.

Lastly using percentage and not amount of fuel introduce an artificial discrimination among plane and promote timid behaviours.

There was an intense discution about the fuel that lead to the 75% limit here

I proposed another system not using percent  here

[WMLute]

Originally posted by Citabria
all strat factories on mindanao are disconnected on the northeast and south countries and no one has noticed. only the west country has a workign strat factory system. it proves it right there. its broke and to confusing and un needed for anyone to notice

I noticed that.

[MRPLUTO]

I also noticed that strat seemed to be out on two Mindanao countries, but when I mentioned it on country channel nobody responded.  So, I thought, "Who cares?  Just do what you want and have fun."  And I did.

=============================================
I strongly agree with Fester that the strategic system should be less convoluted and stay down longer with no resupply.
=============================================

One thing, though...on large maps it might be better to have two of every strategic target.



MRPLUTO

[Virage]

Strat definitely needs some 'drawing board' time.  What I would like:

1 industrial region per country.

HQ...  increase amount of ord to destroy HQ (current total was based on pre-formation days iir), make it unresupplyable AND have it effect BAR DAR ONLY.  (perfect comprimise if i must say so myself   )

Lower base fuel min to 50%.

[Charon]

Strat....what's that? I missed the early years, but for the last two or so I don't recall noticing strat ever having an influence on me (aside from HQ radar).

If you incorporate a strong strat element it will provide greater variety and, IMO, even impact the basic horde deal itself. A certain percentage of players will, at all times, be looking to bomb, escort and intercept. If the strat is important they will find some action instead of flying over the action going on down at 2k. It will give dedicated bomber guys a purpose in life, dedicated interceptor guys a purpose (and some chance of actual action) and even give those p-51 or nothing guys a historical option beyond porking a field.

I wonder, though, if HTC even sees the current MA game play as a problem. And, I imagine TOD is the new baby now that will be getting most of the serious infrastructure/programming attention. I suppose it could be argued that TOD will fill these needs, but I don't necessarily see too much real crossover between the typical MA player and future TOD player (with its strong role-playing format). I'll probably do both, but MA with real strat is, at least for me, more important than TOD.

Charon