Author Topic: stick stiring?  (Read 430 times)

Offline 68DevilM

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stick stiring?
« on: November 22, 2004, 10:57:27 AM »
ok now i heard of it and i think ive seen it done a hundred times, but what i can figure out is how the hell thier controls dont lock up?

i mean unless its just lag, these guys will litterly roll, and flip thier planes all over the place when you get on thier tail, and im not talking about scissoring niether. they will be directly in from of me and make it look like thier doing big circles (rapidly) with thier joysticks or something.

if i were to even try that, my controls would lock up.

i mean is this a bug or am i just seeing things?

Offline RTSigma

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stick stiring?
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2004, 11:02:44 AM »
It doesn't have to be rapid movement, pilots know how to do it just under the "Don't move your stick so rapidly" thing.

Its quite simple once you practice it.

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Offline 68DevilM

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stick stiring?
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2004, 11:12:38 AM »
funny thing is they lose alot of e doing it but im finding it harder and harder to project my fire because i cant guess witch way thier going.

so i guess its working:p

so poop on me

Offline JB73

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stick stiring?
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2004, 11:25:44 AM »
it is lag.

what you are seeing is a plane in a stall, usually self-induced and the plane is winging over.

take a 190 for example. at low speeds (225 IAS) the wing-over is really nasty, and a snap stall happens in a fraction of a second. the plane goes inverted, and the pilot tries (usually) to recover. what you see on your FE is a plane flipping inverted, then righting itself quickly.

then net code can;t send that many packets in the time it takes for a plane to snap-stall so you get that flippy thing.

imagine it like a cartoon. ever make one you flip yourself? if there is too much action between 1 frame then the next it looks funny. thats pretty much what you are seeing.

as for "don't move your controls so rapidly" that is generally not what is happening. i can make a C.205 flip over at will then right itself (though still with the stall horn blaring) in about 1/2 a second. go around 200 IAS, then pull up and to the left with NO rudder input, when you are at the point where the nose of your plane is about 75 deg kick the rudder right hard and fast. just 1 simple input will cause the plane to flop over dramatically. mind you it is not totally easy to recover from this, but is a quick example of self induced stall. on the chasers FE the plane will flip, then drop in altitude, then flip again all in the matter of about 1-2 seconds.

mind you this can be done intentionally, or if you notice the manuever mentioned, it is similar to a barrel roll, it is just done more violently.

in the heat of the battle with that con on your stick you sometimes push too far, or quickly, and the plane's FM responds. the net code just cant keep up for the guy chasing you.

whether it is deliberate or accidental is up for debate. take the C.205 example above. if i was being attacked by a higher speed spit from the 7oclock position i would think to try a barrel roll going up the the left for an immediate defense. it makes him turn tighter bleeding E, and there is always the possibility of an over shoot.

well lets say i just got finished with another spit, and my E state is low. the C.205 turns terrible to the left and doing that manuever will generally result in a stall unless you have TONS of E.

even so, i want to try at least to make my evasive, and maybe i didnt judge the E state of the spit well. maybe he has chopped throttle, and is waiting for my roll. as i go up and notice he is following with ease, i start to push harder to make the move....

but i snap-stall over losing control. now the spit was clear on my 6 and he saw the flip, he pulls up to reset, and calls out on ch200 i am a stick stirrer based on what he saw on his FE.


now myself, i know right about where that snap is going to happen, and i try to ride that edge, hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst. not everyone has perfect control over their plane 100% of the time in Aces High.





there is 1 other type of "stick stir" i can think of. in fact a guy i was fighting the other day did it intentionally, and we both laughed. he said "it was all i could do you had me".

on the deck in a 190 chop throttle to zero pull up slightly and roll 1 way or the other. you will enter a snap stall similar to the C.205 and you will bleed E drastically. you plane will be in a total stall, and unless you are decent, you will not recover.

if you are able to recover you opponenet will have overshot you almost 99% of the time.

either way that is also not a "stick stir" but a induced stall counting on the net lag to not relay enough packets.





oh well thats my take on stick stirring
I don't know what to put here yet.

Offline mechanic

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stick stiring?
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2004, 11:25:44 AM »
stick stirring is rather a lose term.

the main reason it would happen is if one dragged the stick right back and left or right whilst giving full rudder in the same direction. The plane simply cant take the rapid change of lift and center of gravity and snap stalls at ridiculous speed.

the prime offenders are 190s IMO, mainly because this plane is very unstable at low speed or in tight turns.

also, its not always dilliberate, but always frustrating.
And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.

Offline HUN

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stick stiring?
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2004, 12:19:45 PM »
I don’t equate stick stirring with snap stalling… which is what most of you are talking about here.  While stick stirrers drop E and speed they don’t mean to stall themselves out during the maneuver, but they will in a prolonged engagement.  These guys make rapid minute stick adjustments that make them very difficult to hit.

Offline 68DevilM

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stick stiring?
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2004, 03:57:42 PM »
good stuff

i guess what ill have to do is show a little more patience when i see this and drop back my throttle and just wait for him to straighten out some

Offline g00b

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If you ever have the chance...
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2004, 05:44:00 PM »
If you ever have the opportunity to run AH on two computers side by side, do it. Observe the seperate realities that exist on both machines. In close formation it's possible for both planes to be in front (or behind) the other on their respective FE's. Depending on connection and server load planes can be several hundred yards "out of sync" with what others are seeing. Control inputs are lagged as well, I liked JB73's analogy. If two players both have 100ms pings, that's a full 200ms (kinda sorta) before any changes from one FE are relayed and displayed on the other. A snap roll or other accelerated stall manuever can change the planes attitude quite a bit in that time.

g00b