Author Topic: Learning to fly  (Read 7953 times)

Offline Straiga

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Learning to fly
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2004, 08:22:39 PM »
Chairboy,

 Take it from a CFII airplane and helicopter instructor.
 
 1st Pick out an instructor you would like to fly with, if he or she turns out, not to be what you thought, get another one. This is KEY to good training.

 2nd Make shure your instructor has a lot of experience, and that the ink on his or her instructor licenses are dry. Some of they guys bairly have a little more time in the airplane than you do.

 3rd If your around 270lbs stay away from the 150 or 152 if your flying out of an airport above 2500ft elevation your going to spend all your training time just to getting to altitude, so you can do your manuvers. 150 HP or better.

 4th People have preferances about high wing or low wing, tail dragger or tricycle, but what ever you fly have your instructor show you what it can or can't do to the fullest.

 5th When its windyer than hell go flying get the cross wind training, get the thing up in the mountains youll learn a thing or two, Learn and learn weather as much as you can. If the hairs stand up strong on the back of your neck, when your going flying even with your instructor, go get a beer and stay on the ground and fly another day.

 6 Theres going to be a time when you cant or feal you cant do anything right, dont worry it happens to everyone its the learning plateau. Then one day the light bulb turns on and off you go.

 7 Just remember even after you get your license you will be learning to fly the rest of your life. Everyday is a different flying day. Your flight instructor is learning too.

 8 Have your instructor, after you soloed, have him or her show you how to get the plane on the ground with a stuck throttle cable, in full throttle, and also have them show you how to get the plane on the ground with no elevator controll, (who knows what the mechcanic did). The same goes for aileron.
 If you can fly the plane without these controlls, it will give you some great confidence in controlling any airplane. Its tough, but see if your instructor can do it first. This will give you more or less- confidence in your instructor. Dont take no for an answer. LOL Learning buy the book is one thing, learning from murphy is another.

 This is a start so good luck! if you need some help just shout.
 
 Oh! buy the way, put on your best shirt when you go solo for the first time.

 Take care Straiga
« Last Edit: December 10, 2004, 08:25:39 PM by Straiga »

Offline mars01

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« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2004, 11:50:05 PM »
Great Points Straiga and dead on.

And for all you super heros, your wrong.  I never once said that the 152 is unstable so find your BS some where else. :aok

I have 200 hours in a 152 and only about half of that is  strait and level.  Fk I bought the thing before my first lesson, 3 years ago, and still lease it back to the flight school.

Is it easy to keep the majority of the GA planes from spinning?  Eh yeah for an expierianced pilot, no doubt, that is how they are made, to be stable.  Why would anyone here suggest anything differnt or ASSume some one else was?

Quote
In fact, one of my instructors had a stability demonstration he had me perform where we did a gentle power off stall and held the controls full aft, and as the plane settled into the full stall, gently nudged rudder left and right.  At no point did the plane attempt to enter a spin and the recovery was as simple as relaxing the aft controls and adding power.
  LOL yeah next time ask him to crank an aeileron.  Why do you think you only use rudders in MCA?

As for the stability check eagl, go get one more hour in a 152, put in MCA and hold the yoke back, dont give any right rudder and give it half an aileron deflection and let me know what your 101st hour was like lol.

I have stalled and spun a 152 countless times, a Katana about 4 times and 172 twice;  the Katana spins like a top, man that thing spins fast and tight; the 172 is a biotch and needs a little power to get it to spin.

I have also done stalls in a warrior, J3, V35, 182 and a Baron.  Stalls handled correctly are not an issue, but try to remember back to your first 20 hours, if you can then maybe some of you guys might get off your horses and put you D@#ks back in your pants lolh. :D

When it comes down to it a 152 is certified for spins and is easy to spin, it is also very easy to keep it from spinning.  LOL cross control talk about hamfisted.  Compared to a Warrior that barely stalls you will get much better stall and spin training in a 152.  As for the Tomahawk yeah that like the 152 is a primary trainer.  There is little else to do with it.  I would expect to get good stall and spin training in it.

Chairboy, your first 50 hours are going to be some of the most exciting, exhilirating, challenging, rewarding, daunting and humbling hours of your life and flying carrer.  Have a blast, stay calm, be prepared and relax.  

Try to fly at least once a week till you solo, if you can.  Then try to fly at least 1 every two weeks until your long cross country.  By that point it wont be so much like starting over every time and you will maximize you money.

Good luck and keep you eyes open.

Offline mia389

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« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2004, 01:06:57 AM »
mars, I mostly agree with what you say, but the cross control stalls in both the warrior and the 152 are really nothing IMO. The warrior stalls are worse when cross controled I think. The 152 has alot more aleiron surface and will come out of a cross control very easy and I couldnt get it to spin in a cross control stall. The warrior or cadet, it really makes no difference if cross countroled or not. For a private student though I do think the 152 has more of intense feeling when stalling. It will drop a wing, if not cornatied where a cadet or warrior will just fall and start flying again. I do disagree with alreirons in the 152 though. Ive found in "our" 152 it dosnt matter where the alierons are. To spin was full aft yoke and full left rudder at the right time. If you didnt get the timing down it would lead to a steep spiral.  Every plane is differnt though and I only have like 20 hours in the 152. What I mentioned above is my expierence in the 152. I do have alot more experience in the warrior and the seneca.

Chairboy, Mars and Straiga have very good points. This isnt a bad message board to get info on flight training. Alot of the AH community are real pilots and instructors. One of my faviorte sites to goto for info, is http://www.thecfi.com . Alot of DPEs and flight instructors check that site daily
« Last Edit: December 11, 2004, 01:21:16 AM by mia389 »

Offline mia389

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« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2004, 01:50:09 AM »
Ill make sure Im not mistaken tomorrow when I fly the 152 :-) If my camera has batteries :-)

Offline JoOwEn

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« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2004, 06:59:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maniac
Cool.

Go for your dreams man.


Imagine if they didnt have flight school christmas gift vouchers. Then what?

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2004, 10:57:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by ra
I did my training in a Traumahawk, spins were prohibited.


Me too and I don't know if they were prohibited way back when this was taken but we did spin it.

Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2004, 05:05:12 PM »
Hi guys!

I just got back from my first lesson, and it was GREAT!

My instructor (Jeff Martin) has 2200 hours, I was sure to ask after someone on the thread suggested it.  We did an hour of ground school, then he showed me how to inspect the plane, preflight basics, etc.  We taxiied over to near the runway (SMO is busy) and went over more checklists while we were waiting, then finally got cleared to hold on the runway.

I gotta tell you guys...  I've driven past Santa Monica airport for 7 years, and I never had any idea what I was missing.  Sitting at the beginning of the runway looking out at the Pacific on this perfect sunny day was...  amazingly beautiful.  The sky was perfect, I could see boats out on the water, and the runway was covered by little blackmarks from thousands of take offs and landings.  We began our takeoff role, lifted into the air, and like that, we were flying.

He showed me the noise abatement procedures for SMO (zag over to the left, straighten out over the golfcourse heading west), then we turned north as we crossed the beach.

He got us up to 1,800 or so and showed me the controls, then handed them over.  I did a few small turns, then did a 180 and a 360, then did some 90 degree turns.  Then he had me do climbing turns.  I saw some close traffic and aborted a turn, so we also got to do collision avoidance.  I got kudos for that, very exciting.  

Finally, we got back into the approach pattern, flying in above Brentwood, then flying along the 10 to the 405, then making a couple of 90's right to put us in close final.  

As we did the approach and landing over Centinela, I realized that for once, I was the plane coming in.  I had seen a bunch coming in as a driver, so it was a real rush.  

On the ground, we did the post landing checklist, then he showed me how to taxi.  He had me do a slalom around the reflectors along the centerline as I taxied back to the parking space, then did braking.

It was an amazing rush, and I can't believe I didn't do this years ago.

Thanks everyone for the advice, it helped me ask some good questions.  

I have a morning lesson tomorrow (one hour ground, one flying) and an evening flying only lesson, and I can't wait!  I've also booked three lessons for during the week on monday, tuesday, and wednesday.  Hope I don't get fired, cuzz I'm doing them on my lunch breaks.
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Offline eagl

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« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2004, 06:05:35 PM »
Sounds like fun!  What kind of plane?  The bigger they are the more expensive they get, but I know my Dad started renting 172s even when just taking up one person after he got his license, just so he wouldn't feel cramped.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2004, 09:55:59 PM »
1981 Piper Cherokee Warrior, it was great.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline rshubert

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« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2004, 10:07:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ra
I've spun a 152, it doesn't go all that easily, it takes crossed controls to do it.   And you still haven't explained how a high-wing plane spins easier than a low wing plane.  All those planes are very stable and will not spin easily.  They wouldn't be used as trainers otherwise.

ra


I've spun 150s, 152s, and 172s.  All of them require rudder kick to even get into the spin, and you have to hold rudder to maintain it.  And I never found the stall on my 172 to be abrupt--just the opposite.  It yells at you for a while, then breaks nose down about 20 degrees.  Ho-hum.

Now, the Traumahawk was first approved for spins, then that certification was removed.  They have a spin mode that is unrecoverable.  The new Cirrus isn't approved for spins, and wasn't even spin tested, considering the cool parachute.

Low wing vs. High wing pilots are just like Chevy vs. Ford drivers.  Everybody thinks the other guy's plane is junk.  The truth is that they're all good, and all safe, if flown by an alert pilot within the aircraft's envelope.  Get outside the envelope, and you're a test pilot without a chute.



shubie

Offline rshubert

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Chairboy,
« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2004, 10:11:22 PM »
Doing the lessons in a short time is the best way.  It will save you money in the long run, since you will not need to partially relearn your skills after a long layoff.  I guess I am saying keep it up.

The only thing I regret about getting my license 10 years ago is the fact that I waited so long.  I could have been flying 20 years earlier.



shubie

Offline Straiga

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« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2004, 10:33:54 PM »
Quote
Now, the Traumahawk was first approved for spins, then that certification was removed. They have a spin mode that is unrecoverable.


 I been looking at my log book, over the last 31 years I have spun the Traumahawk 173 times myself or with students. The Tomahawk, is what I consider the best training airplane around, if you could fly this you could fly anything in its range. This plane you had to fly, not like the others that are so dawsail. I strongly disagree about the spin mode that is unrecoverable, what traumahawk were you flying.

Straiga

Offline Golfer

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« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2004, 11:01:17 PM »
« Last Edit: December 12, 2004, 01:47:01 AM by Golfer »

Offline rshubert

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« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2004, 12:49:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Straiga
I been looking at my log book, over the last 31 years I have spun the Traumahawk 173 times myself or with students. The Tomahawk, is what I consider the best training airplane around, if you could fly this you could fly anything in its range. This plane you had to fly, not like the others that are so dawsail. I strongly disagree about the spin mode that is unrecoverable, what traumahawk were you flying.

Straiga


I've never flown one.  However, the NTSB did require Piper to run a new series of stall/spin tests.  Here's a link to the AOPA Air Safety Foundation information:

http://www.pipertomahawk.com/stallspin.htm

Read it and draw your own conclusions.

Offline jigsaw

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« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2004, 01:42:55 AM »
Chairboy: Grats on your first flight.

Straiga: If you've got an inside line for jobs, put me on the begging list. ;)

Re: Spinning Tomahawks. From what I've been told they tighten up in the spin during recovery, which causes some people to freak out and lose it.
My very first student was taught to come in high and hot in a Tomahawk.  Had a hard time breaking her of that in her transition to a 172.

So far I've spun 152, 172 (pain in the arse to get to fully developed spin), and Extra 300. Most disorienting thing I've ever experienced was an inverted flat spin. Never seen a Warrior that was legal to spin.

rshubert: Rich Stowell is one of the foremost experts on the planet with regard to spins. Really nice guy as well.