Midnight... I challenge *YOU*

[Redd]

Originally posted by TBolt A-10
i don't wanna download.   who won?

(as if i couldn't guess)

won't take you long, they are short films.

[Dead Man Flying]

To Midnight's credit, that was better flying than I (and probably Shane) expected.  The results speak for themselves, but I think he doesn't come across as clueless at all.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Shane]

yeah, i wasn't expecting the harder merge in the 2nd one. paid the price for my slip in diligence.

he has clues, moreso in an MA environment.  he could use some more 1 v 1 brush up so he could apply those skills in the MA as well when he needs them.

above all, tho'... at least he came to play.

*I* need to fly pony (esp in ah2) more... gettin' rusty.

[sax]

Originally posted by Shane

above all, tho'... at least he came to play.

It is is good to see the other side come out to play.
Good job Midnight---anyone other than Shane or possibly Levi who sucks--

[Midnight]

I fought and I lost. I learned a couple things.

First, I Shane for winning. Great handling of the P-51 at such low speeds and excellent merging.

I learned a few things also.

1. I did not effectively use the corner velocity of the P-51 to maximize the performance my turns.

2. I do not have complete control of my aircraft near stall speeds, which caused me to drop a wing on more than one occasion.

3. I do not fight effectively at ground level unless I have more airspeed.

I will say that I never felt an advantage in any of the 4 engagements.
1. The 1st one was a total loss right from the merge because I think I came into it too fast.
2. The 2nd one I tried to slow down to corner velocity so I could beat Shane around at the 1st turn. I did do that and was fortunate to hit radiator and oil, however it was accomplished at the expense of lost E and position. Had I not struck a vital component, I would have had Shane on my six.
3. The 3rd, I again burned E at the merge to get to corner velocity. This let me gain position on Shane's six, however I did not have E to maintain that position in the following climb.
4. I tried to go more vertical, however I was unable to execute the reversal I intended.

I am glad that I went through this experience. Even though it is not my intention to fly in this manner on a regular basis, mostly because in the MA, a P-51 at those speeds will be slaughtered by the popular cannon-armed turners, I also must realize that this situation is not an uncommon occurance. Therefore, I beleive it is benificial to improve my skills in this type of engagement.

I intend on watching Shane's films later today.

[jamusta]

Those were some nice fights. Midnight I could tell you were not use to being that slow in the 51 against a lesser pilot tho you would have done alot better. I fly the 51 alot and always end up on the deck. It is quite capable down there at slow speeds. I learned a long time ago never ever ever scissor with shane in any plane.

[F4UDOA]

Two important lessons to take from these films.

1. Shanes gunnery is rediculous. He missed one snapshot in 4 fights. I would dump half my ammo to get the same amount of hits.

2. How much better a dogfight is .50cals instead of basookas. Much more intense ACM.

Curious Shane,

Do you chop your throttle much to maintain your position at all times behind the enemy? BadBoy preaches that quite a bit from what I remember.

[Shane]

Yeah I want to avoid an overshoot, so I'll do whatever it takes, cut throttle, flaps, roll vert, opposite rudder.. sometimes all at once.  

My gunnery blows, when I got my new computer last year (AH1, it went up to around 10-11% from about 7%)  then when ah2 rolled out it dropped down to 4-5%, slowly climbed to a current 8% or so. I have most guns set to converge at either 250 or 300 yds with all guns on whichever plane having the same convergence.

it's a little easier in DA due to the fact you can concentrate solely on your opponent w/o having to worry about others in the area. plus you're closer in for the most part, since running is less of an option.

[Howitzer]

I set pretty much everything to 300, except with the 50s.  In a pony I'll set the outside guns at 350, middle at 325, and inside at 300.   I do the same with the jug, just start at 375 instead.  AHII gunnery changed in heaps.  I can remember last couple tours in ah1 I was hovering at 15% hit rate, now I can barely maintain 8%, and if you are shooting at a fleeting plane around d400 from a straight 6, you will see that drop like a rock.  

Anymore I only feel comfortable with the snapshots or shots from a high 6, anything else gets pretty rough.  

Shane, I think if you were able to see what your hit % was in the DA you'd be surprised at the difference from the MA.  When we went rounds in the DA sometime back, you hit snaps that I would feel confident 90% would miss in the MA.

[Shane]

you can.. my DA % since whenever the last reset was are 7% and 5% for ftr/attack, respectively.

unless the stats have been "locked" and haven't changed since who knows when.

i'll fess up to having a semi-decent snap shot ability since that's often the only shot i may be getting with the way i fly, which is one reason, out of several, why in the MA i fly the la7 (cannon).

altho i do ok in .50 cal planes, too...

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/170_1103314822_film32.ahf

[Midnight]

Howitzer, prior to the AHII gunnery changes, I had my convergences set in a reverse stagger with the inside pair of guns set to 425, middle at 400 and outside at 375.

The change forced me to make corrections to my convergence. All 3 pairs set to 300 yards.

I average in the 10 - 11% range now.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by SLO
1on1 is just stall fighting, no fun there...

Because 1v1 stall fight is beyond your capabilities?



ack-ack

[Shane]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Because 1v1 stall fight is beyond your capabilities?
ack-ack

[Midnight]

I'll be honest and say that the reason I do not like to go to the DA for 1-v-1 fights is becuase the fight is fought differently than it would be in the MA. The reason, as I see it, is that the pilot need not consider "what do I do next (once this fight is over)"

That is why (I believe) that DA fights almost instantly turn into a stall fight. Granted, E management is still critical in winning, however, it's only E management realative to one aircraft, and not the 1, 2 or 3 others coming your direction.

I've already posted (on the 412th BBS) a training session for the 412th to practice corner velocity turns and reversals, because fighting low and slow is a reality in the MA. After all, at least 50% of the fights I loose in the MA is when my E is all gone on the deck.

[Redd]

Originally posted by Midnight
I'll be honest and say that the reason I do not like to go to the DA for 1-v-1 fights is becuase the fight is fought differently than it would be in the MA. The reason, as I see it, is that the pilot need not consider "what do I do next (once this fight is over)"

That is why (I believe) that DA fights almost instantly turn into a stall fight. Granted, E management is still critical in winning, however, it's only E management realative to one aircraft, and not the 1, 2 or 3 others coming your direction.

I've already posted (on the 412th BBS) a training session for the 412th to practice corner velocity turns and reversals, because fighting low and slow is a reality in the MA. After all, at least 50% of the fights I loose in the MA is when my E is all gone on the deck.

Wouldn't it  always be good for  any new guy to learn to stall fight first ,then learn stall-fighting with energy management,  then learn pure E-fighting , rather than the other way round.  ? Why do people talk aboiut stall-fighting as if it's dirty ?


It seems these days too many new players jump straight into "fast" planes or e-fighters, but  they don't have any command of ACM, so they just become jousters from the beginning. It takes them much longer time to develop any real skill, because of the limitations of the plane they are flying, so they basically stay jousters and runners for a long long time.