10-year vet won't return to Iraq

[patrone]

Originally posted by weaselsan
Fine.... as long as he repays the US taxpayers 10 years salary.
You see when the time came to earn that pay, he claims he's unqualified,

USN Retired 1962-1992 Master Chief E9

Hush words. And what did you do, operate the potato peeling machine?

So many BS guys claiming BS.

Would love to see how many of you runs off when the draft comes along.....

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
I cannot get away with playing dumb.

Holden's SC Resolution 1542

Noting that you left yourself open for a quick sacrcastic comeback,

Resolves that the opportunity will pass without comment.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Swager
If he feels that strongly about going to Iraq and war, then he shouldn't go.

See thats where I differ.

If he were drafted I'd agree. I am whole heatedly against a draft.
Then you are forced to serve and fight even if you never wanted to

But he volunteered for the service.
And if he was in for 10 years he did so more then once

and there lies the difference

If you volunteer you know the score going in that there is a chance you may have to go to war or a war you dont like. Thats the chance you take.
You dont just say all of a sudden Im against it or in this case "Im not going" when it doesnt suit you.

Now I can understand someone may loose their nerve or be against the war but.
If he feels that way. He should have put in the request long ago and not at the last minute. .

[Maverick]

Points have already been made but seperately. Maybe it will help to make them together.

First, he is a 10 year vet so he knows the system and how it works. If he had any questions he would have known how and where to find the answers.

Second, he has already served one hitch in Iraq. He certainly has had the oportunity to see what that situation is like.

Third, he waited until shortly before his unit was ordered to deploy BEFORE declaring CO status. Given the unit rotations he had knowledge ahead of time before deployment to file instead of waiting until deployment date to decide not to comply with orders. If he was really serious he should have filed as soon as his unit returned from Iraq from his first hitch there.

Fourth, Even if he has applied he still has to continue to serve. It is normal to place a CO status claimant in a non combat position. It doesn't mean that he can't be expected to be in the line of fire, he just wouldn't be expected to bear arms. There are other duties (example Medics) that are in the line of fire but do not bear arms and many in the past were in CO status. A CO does not make it impossible to serve, just that you are not expected to carry arms in combat. Every unit, especially battalion and above level, has admin positions he could serve in out of combat duty status.

Fifth, He failed to apear for duty. This places him in a deserter status and certainly will not help his case for CO. It will likely end up costing him jail as well as dishonorable discharge.

[Yeager]

He has abandoned his brothers and sisters in unirform.  

Poor bastard.....at least he is alive and in one peace, eh?

[Lizking]

He was already in a non-combat unit and says he has never fired a gun in anger.

He should be  allowed his conscience, but he has to accept his responsibility too.

[midnight Target]

He has every right to the choice he made and he must pay the appropriate consequences.

Sargent Yorks objections where genuine and based on religious principles.

weaselsan.. you have no idea how genuine this guy's objections are. Nothing but speculation chief. Maybe he looks like Gary Cooper and ain't afeared 'o nuthin.

[Airhead]

WTF is the matter with some of you guys?

 First of all, Patrone- STFU. You have no idea what Weaselsan did for thirty years in the military, although we can assume he did much more than peel potatos or he wouldn't have made E-9. You have absolutely no right to denegrate this man's service to his country nor do you have the right to classify him a "chickenhawk" unless you have proof he refused orders into a combat zone-just  like the arse you are defending did.

<> Weaselsan, I appreciate what you have done for me and my country.

Now here's the way it is when you "join" the military-

They own you. They tell you where to go and what to do- and sometimes where you go and what you do is dangerous, So dangerous, in fact, they give you guns and you dress in camoflague. There is no surprise here- it's not like the Devil tricking you into a deal. You know the potential concequinces but when you take that oath defend the Constitution

Once you take the oath to serve and protect you are honorbound to fulfill that oath. To take ten years of the benefits, then to refuse to deply now, is unconcionable. I can have respect for those who fled the draft but I can't respect a person who sucks up all the bennies then refuses to go.

We have an all volunteer military and he has no excuse- the bottom line is this guy is a coward and a disgrace. I'd say Court Martial him but it's probably best to discharge him and forget the POS.

[john9001]

white feather

[Red Tail 444]

Originally posted by wombatt
No problem.
For everyone of these guys there is a hero like yourself to take there place.

When do you ship out?

Put some sarcasm goggles on, and don't take things so seriously.

Frankly, since God gave us all the ability to engage in Free Will, I respect his decision to change his mind.


As far as my shipping out is concerned:

I ship out every day my taxes are paid to fund this war.


And, since the Army says so, since my relatives and loved ones serving in the military are over there, therefore, so am I.













And the weather sucks, BTW

[Widgeo]

This guy is not a conscientious objector hes a coward. Throw his bellybutton in jail.
  There have been thousands of conscientious objectors who have served bravely in war for their country. In fact there has been two who received the medal of honor. You can read about them here:

Tom Bennett
http://www.thehistorynet.com/vn/bltombennett/index.html

Desomond Doss
http://www.medalofhonor.com/DesmondDoss.htm

[DoctorYO]

Once you take the oath to serve and protect you are honorbound to fulfill that oath. To take ten years of the benefits, then to refuse to deply now, is unconcionable. I can have respect for those who fled the draft but I can't respect a person who sucks up all the bennies then refuses to go.

Well considering the fact this guy did a tour saw some things that in his opinion weren't right and now doesn't want to participate in it I dont blame him..  In fact its borderline simian to say during his ten years of service he didn't pull his weight.. (bradley mechcanics get worked plenty even in peacetime let alone war hours...)

review his current contract make him payback any bonuses and dishonorable discharge him...  with minimal jail time say 30 days..

to example him and scapegoat him for the failed campaign in Iraq is pathetic.. (you should be looking at the extended tours 2 tours and 3 tour soldiers (morale busters) when if rumsfield committed the troops in the first place we would have only 1 tour.. but who counting the military blunder factor)

I too think the chaplains comments were amusing also but considering that Bradley mechcanics are few and far between they most likely needed him for unit readiness..   then he springs the CO status on them (last minute) and they get a mouthful from their higher ups for allowing this to happen.. (crap rolls downhill)

to the comments about potatoe peeling its clear you have no time in service as said earlier E-9's dont get there for being ROAD... given the time frame he got out he most likely had a full college edu + war college just to make Sgt Major (E-9) so with respect stfu..

In response why dont you post some reup papers and get over there yourself..  that way you can see first hand what war is all about.. (deafening silence anyone)

I ship out every day my taxes are paid to fund this war.

this is copout and lily livered..  

if thats the case some 200 million of my fellow americans also are in the war zone along with you..  what a laugh..


DoctorYo

[guttboy]

Ill tell you what.  The guy knew what he was doing...plain and simple.

As for some that think he should be forced to just pay back the money well it goes deeper than that.

How about the buddies he screwed by not showing up? Hmmmm..
How about the "buddy" that now had to take his place? Hmmmm..
How about having some intestinal fortitude to state how he felt upon return from his first stint?  Unsure on when he found out he was a CO but bailing like that is pretty piss poor if you ask me.

I could care less about his convictions or his beliefs to be honest....what I do care about is he let his fellow soldiers down...no if's, and's, or but's about it.

[weaselsan]

Originally posted by Airhead
WTF is the matter with some of you guys?

 First of all, Patrone- STFU. You have no idea what Weaselsan did for thirty years in the military, although we can assume he did much more than peel potatos or he wouldn't have made E-9. You have absolutely no right to denegrate this man's service to his country nor do you have the right to classify him a "chickenhawk" unless you have proof he refused orders into a combat zone-just  like the arse you are defending did.

<> Weaselsan, I appreciate what you have done for me and my country.

Now here's the way it is when you "join" the military-

They own you. They tell you where to go and what to do- and sometimes where you go and what you do is dangerous, So dangerous, in fact, they give you guns and you dress in camoflague. There is no surprise here- it's not like the Devil tricking you into a deal. You know the potential concequinces but when you take that oath defend the Constitution

Once you take the oath to serve and protect you are honorbound to fulfill that oath. To take ten years of the benefits, then to refuse to deply now, is unconcionable. I can have respect for those who fled the draft but I can't respect a person who sucks up all the bennies then refuses to go.

We have an all volunteer military and he has no excuse- the bottom line is this guy is a coward and a disgrace. I'd say Court Martial him but it's probably best to discharge him and forget the POS.

I receive a nice retirement from the Navy...I'm a multi Million dollar lottery winner...and have been informed by letter from the Soc. Sec. Admin that I am now eligible for benifits. You needn't thank me for anything, but thanks for the thought. I served in the Navy because I liked the life. I stayed in the extra time to train crews on Gearing class Destroyers as they where sold to Allied Countries.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Nuke33


I say right on dude, because as we all know,  as long as there are militaries there will be war..

Militaries have nothing to do with starting wars.  As long as humans remain human there will always be war.  It's an ugly side of human nature.


ack-ack