P51 vs spit9

[-ammo-]

OK 51 drivers, how do you deal with this when the spit is equal or higher E.

This has turned out to be a difficult match for me to handle. I have no problems with other AC, to include the spit5. Its just the same tactics I use with other AC, dont work well with the spit9. I was discussing this with another 51 driver last night and he agrees that the Spit9 is the tuffest match for the 51. Before I go any further, I would liek your opinion and methods to this match. If its run---then say so. In the MA, thats really the best thing to do if possible, run till you get enuff room or he breaks off, reverse and make your gun pass count!

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by -ammo-:
OK 51 drivers, how do you deal with this when the spit is equal or higher E.

Running like hell  

Thats the standard move  

[gospel]

Hi buddy  

I would say that depends on what altitude you are at.  The Spit V's performance drops off significantly above 17K or so.  At that altitude, the Mustang is faster and climbs better too, so you have several options.

If you keep a minimum altitude of 6k or so below you, the P51 can out-dive the Spit, and manuevers pretty good at high speed.

The Spit V may have an initial E advantage, but it will be hard for him to keep it if you do not turn with him.  Yes "running" is an effective tactic, but keep in mind that by extending you are not only gaining separation, but also equalizing the E against a con with a slower top speed. Once you have pulled away a comfortable distance, try to climb a little too.  This adds potential energy to the kinetic energy advantage (speed advantage) that you are building.  If you keep this up long enough, the con following you will wonder where is E advantage went  .
   
Anytime I get bounced by a higher con in a P51 and manage to evade or escape, I am satisfied if I manage to escape and go look for an easier fight.

gospel
332nd flying mongrels

[Sharky]

Ammo,

The co-alt co-e Spit IX is nothing to be afraid of, respected yes, feared no.  The key to this fight is speed.  The Mustang handles much better at high speed than the Spitfire, so the object in this fight is to keep speed as high as possible.

Now remember if pilot ability is the same, the differance in the outcome of any fight then moves to the performance of the aircraft, and the SpitIX is an outstanding performing aircraft.  You run into a fd-ski or one of those, you better be able to see the exact instant the fight isn't going your way and exit.

Other than that just remember your advantages over the Spit.  The Mustang handles much better at high speed, has a higher top speed (not a lot though) and the Mustang retains energy very well.

The specific tactics are to much to go into here, drop me a line and we'll go into the TA and work on it.

Sharky

------------------
Playboy Leader
307th FS/31st FG
You can run but ya just die tired

[Spatula]

When i encounter a spit IX or V thats higher than me, i check my speed and if i aint above 300 MPH, and i have alt to play with (which you should have), i dive a gentle dive to get speed, normally in the direction of something friendly or helpfull. The spit pilot will invariably line up a bounce on your 6. This is where you need ya speed, make him work for it, ie get him up to a very fast speed (for a spit, not for the stang), then when he D1.2 or so commence a break turn, you will start to black out, but thats ok. There is NO way a spit can match the break turn at that speed, so once ya turned about 90 degrees or so, just hi-yoyo up and barrell roll back down on to his 6. I find that most spit drivers (not all, there are some very good ones) think they have the best turning plane in the game and try their best to match your turn and this will mean they lose their E advantage and they are now lower than you. Someone mentioned it earlier if the spit dives after you to try catch up he throwing all his hard won E into the garbage can, and as long as you stay fast there is no way he can manuevere with you.

There is the run like toejam option, but at a point you'll start pulling away from him, when ya get to D 3 or so just hit WEP and go straight up (easy does it tho) and when you start to stall, hammerhead over and below you will be a stalled spitfire floundering to get a gun solution while you come down on him with 6 50 cals blazing   Spit V are a peice of birthday cake for this move, spit 9 ya have to be a bit carefull.

I have a flim from last night of me beating up a hi spit - who ran when he saw me (even tho he had the alt) but he turned back and went for HO, after merge he turned so hard he srubbed his E off so i just zoomed up and roped him. Will post it later (im at work at the mo)

If all else fails, ya can always disengage when you see fit   the spit can't  


------------------
Overlord Spatula

if you adhere to all the rules you miss out on all the fun
 

=357th Pony Express=

[This message has been edited by Spatula (edited 06-14-2000).]

[funked]

They run like little girls.

[Spatula]

OK, heres a film of me beating (not qiute killing thnx to my lousy gunnery and VERY easy ditchin... no comment)

 whomp here it is...

This one was a bit dodgy, the spitty got a ping or two on me (you cant see it tho). This is what i mean the spit IX is to treated with care...

------------------
Overlord Spatula

if you adhere to all the rules you miss out on all the fun
 

=357th Pony Express=

[This message has been edited by Spatula (edited 06-15-2000).]

[Wardog]

ammo...

Both Spit variants are easy meat if you drivin a p51. I take great pleasure in killing hi Spits that think the p51 is a drone. There are many tactics,but i prefer to keep my 6 to them at all times untill i see an advantage to turn & merge.

Or my favorite move is to take em to the deck,vertical spiral dive and pull out at the last second. If they pull off,you break dive at same time and level out,extend and come back at them. You will have a ton of E.

Ill have to get this on film. But my stats in the 51 against Spit IX have allways been good.

This tour..
Wardog has 12 kills and has been killed 3 times in the P-51D against the Spitfire Mk IX.

One other thing, Look for act he is one of the Knight finest p51 drives, and i allways look forward to fights with him. Ask him to let you join him in the p51.

Please dont listen to funkeds advise,this will get you killed,not to mention getting bored to death.

I wont switch countries,but if you feel like being a bishop for a day,ill gladly take you up,or Hangtime and Spatula is also turning out to be a great p51 driver. Look for any of the 357th or 13th TAS to give you a hand in the 51.

Dog out..

[Spatula]

 

Originally posted by Wardog:
This tour..
Wardog has 12 kills and has been killed 3 times in the P-51D against the Spitfire Mk IX.

He, i beat ya WD  


spatula has 19 kills and has been killed 2 times in the P-51D against the Spitfire Mk IX.

and


spatula has 5 kills and has been killed 0 times in the P-51D against the Spitfire Mk V.


24 kills to 2 deaths, mmmm breakfast is served...

Spat.


[This message has been edited by Spatula (edited 06-15-2000).]

[-ammo-]

Thanx for all the replies! Sharky-- email on the way.

Gospel, and all--Spit 5 is not a problem for me while driving a P51. the 5 is just too slow.

However, the The Spit 9 does give me fits, not every spit9--just the well flown ones.

Spatula, Wardog--I will have to take you up on that. I will weatch for you guys on the roster and take you up on it.

My problem with them is this, My regular moves which are good for other AC dont woirk with the spit. For example-- We merge and instead of nhard immel, I always go into a 35-40 % nose up zoom climb till I speed drops to 200MPH or so, then Ill nose it on over. This ussually gives me a great E advantage over other AC. But the spit invariably will do an aggresive immelman and then just seemingly without trouble follow me up my zoom climb, when I am nosin over he is closin fast. Ill nose down a bit to regain speed and extend, him close behind. At this time I usually just bugout anymore, at least till he gives up the chase. At that point I'll either continue to bugout, or if we are alone, I'll reverse and start again.

Either way-- I just need to learn how to beat these birds  --whooped one last night in MA. I was a little better alt and we merged nose to nose, he went for the HO and I went under and zoomed straight up. he tried to match my manuever and I was getting nervous at the top of my immel, he was at 650 yards spraying as hard as he could, but alas--no more Energy for him, I chopped the throttle, hard rudder, nosed over on top of him and let him have it at 200 yards, he was still wallering for speed. Peppered him good but not fatal. He was smokin and missing hardware and he ran for hiscountrymen. Not long I saw my name in the text buffer.

looking forward to all the training and free rides, Illm get up with you all soon, thx again!

ps-- why should I start listening to funked today?? And break my precedent?? Noone else does so I don't want to be different  

   

[This message has been edited by -ammo- (edited 06-15-2000).]

[funked]

I kick the crap out of Spits in the Mustang, and I kick the crap out of Mustangs in the Spit.

Co-alt, Co-speed, Co-numbers, the Mustang is dead or forced to flee if the pilots are equal.  Success in the Mustang is dependent on being a better pilot, or exploting an advantage in altitude/speed/numbers.  Success in the Spitfire is dependent on finding a Mustang who is foolish enough not to run.    

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 06-16-2000).]

[gospel]

My appologies, Ammo:

I thought you were talking about the Spit V  .

Someone has an excellent performance page, but the link does not appear to be working now.  Here it is, maybe it will work for you: www.users.bigpond.com/afinlayson/Aircraft/p51d.htm

I did print out the performance pages a while ago, so here is the comparison of the P51 vs the Spit IX.

P51/ Spit IX
Acceleration 250-300 mph 31.8 sec vs 37.1 sec
top speed @ 5000'  350 mph vs 322 mph
Roll rate @ 300 mph  3.94 sec vs 4.6 sec
Climb rate @ 10 to 15k 2439 fpm vs 3296 fpm
Zoom climb @ 300 mph  3600 ft vs 3800 ft
Corner speed 300 mph vs 260 mph
360 deg turn @ corner speed 19.2 sec vs 14.94
Turn radius 1053 vs 622 ft

Assuming a co-E 15k engagement height, the Mustang has a speed, acceleration, and roll rate advantage if it is kept at or above corner speed.  The Spit IX turns better, zooms better, and climbs better.

I hope this helps!

gospel
332nd flying mongrels

[-ammo-]

Thx Paul! appreciate it

[easymo]

 The answer to all P51 questions. Run away .

[Mr.ED]

Not Runaway,

Advance to the rear. There is no shame in putting distance between your machine and your enemies, to gain the tactical advantage.

Thank North American for the speed advantage they build into thier Pony.

Mr.ED
Pony Driver