Zazen

[DREDIOCK]

A mission for ya. If you dont mind.

You seem to be good with numbers,and enjoy compiling Stats, and all that.

So an honest breakdown if you dont mind

What percentage of the players land the majority of their flights as opposed to being shot down ,crash,bail etc?

I maintain and I'll use my own evil word/s that the vast "Majority" of the players are suiciders in one form or another be they baseporkers or furballers and that "most" people fly till they die which in essence is really nothing more then suicide flights.

I beleive your numbers if you care to compile them for evaluation will bear me out on this. And not by a small margin either.

[Jackal1]

You do realize, don`t ya, that once someone asked Zaz what his favorite gum was here on the BBS and it took 3 weeks and posts equaling the size of "Gone With The Wind" to reply?

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
I maintain and I'll use my own evil word/s that the vast "Majority" of the players are suiciders in one form or another be they baseporkers or furballers and that "most" people fly till they die which in essence is really nothing more then suicide flights.

Just an FYI... even if the data show that an overwhelming majority of players die more than they land their flights, you cannot describe their behavior as "suicidal" without some other kind of information that remains unavailable to us.  How can you argue that players act suicidally rather than incompetently?  One represents a choice of play style; the other represents a lack of choice regardless of play style.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Darkish]

Is it incompetent to take on a 2 on 1 and loose out to the 3rd guy who comes steeming in; or to win that fight and get picked off by the second incoming wave.

I do realise the gist of thread but there are so many variables to consider before one can correlate a death:landing ration to suicidal tendancies.  For me it's normally the case of overwhelming odds.  Which, come to think of it, implies that yes, I do seek out dangerous situations..... but that's not what we're talking about is it?  May be wrong, but you're on about making sure the bombs hit by flying a plane into the target, no?

As someone who considers himself a "fair" pilot, I tend to land about a third of my sorties over the course of a tour, and I always try, or hope to get back.

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by Darkish
Is it incompetent to take on a 2 on 1 and loose out to the 3rd guy who comes steeming in; or to win that fight and get picked off by the second incoming wave.

I do realise the gist of thread but there are so many variables to consider before one can correlate a death:landing ration to suicidal tendancies.  For me it's normally the case of overwhelming odds.  Which, come to think of it, implies that yes, I do seek out dangerous situations..... but that's not what we're talking about is it?  May be wrong, but you're on about making sure the bombs hit by flying a plane into the target, no?

As someone who considers himself a "fair" pilot, I tend to land about a third of my sorties over the course of a tour, and I always try, or hope to get back.

Exactly, remember also how many people die diving into a furball to help out a squaddie.

[Urchin]

Don't think it is possible... there isn't any way to tell without going through every single players score and working with the K/D and K/S.

[Steve]

Ya, Urch   I agree.

Heck, one could skew land/death ratios just by launching and ending mission w/ out ever leaving the tarmac.  Then there's guys like Lev, Drex,  Slap and others who don't suicide per se but will stick around in hopeless situations and get shot down(after making a good accounting for themselves).  
While folks like Zazen(no offense) may consider this a form of suicide, I disagree.  I think it's a choice made by one who  logged on to dogfight and get kills, with landing a tertiary consideration at best.   I've flown like this on several occasions w/ Levi and ... Levi who was the other guy you used to (and still do for all I know) wing with?  He flew an A8 down low and dirty and always got more than his share.  I am sorry I have forgotten his name, ascerbic fellow w/ good skills... I really liked the guy.  
Anyway, my point is, this would be a very generic calculation, hardly scientific, IMHO.

[hubsonfire]

I only expect to die when attacking CV groups. The other 99% of the time, I'm expecting to fly home. Unfortunately, a lot of people are fundamentally opposed to this, and they seem to shoot at me a lot. Basically, I'm not suicidal, they're homicidal. Big difference.

cheers,
hub

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Just an FYI... even if the data show that an overwhelming majority of players die more than they land their flights, you cannot describe their behavior as "suicidal" without some other kind of information that remains unavailable to us.  How can you argue that players act suicidally rather than incompetently?  One represents a choice of play style; the other represents a lack of choice regardless of play style.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Well then the exact same thing can and should be said about the "suicidal base porkers"

On another thread someone claimed these people

"don't intend to RTB. They usually keep making passes at the barracks and ord until they are either killed by ack or a defender. They will drop, extend just enough to turn around and return, even with a defender right on their 6. They ignore the defender and the ack, and bore in on the barracks, knowing full well they will die if they fly like that. "

I say there are few that either intend on RTB or at least plan on it.

 As "most" dont anyway one would have to assume your probably going to die rather then RTB before you ever up for a furball

Now if you know your probably going to die anyway, as "most" do.  Be it in a furball or a base porking run yet you do it anyway, wouldn't that be considered suicidal?

I think so.

Actually I think that again "most" people would rather be able to RTB no matter what it is they are doing. Yet through as you put it "incompetence" the dont. Be it a furball or baseporking run.

To me, suiciders would be those that intentionally die by crashing intentionally into the ground or target.

And yet in several years now of my being here,I have seen very very very little evidence of this.
While there have been some.
Certainly not enough to substantiate or justify the whines we see on the boards about it.

[Rino]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Well then the exact same thing can and should be said about the "suicidal base porkers"

On another thread someone claimed these people

"don't intend to RTB. They usually keep making passes at the barracks and ord until they are either killed by ack or a defender. They will drop, extend just enough to turn around and return, even with a defender right on their 6. They ignore the defender and the ack, and bore in on the barracks, knowing full well they will die if they fly like that. "

I say there are few that either intend on RTB or at least plan on it.

 As "most" dont anyway one would have to assume your probably going to die rather then RTB before you ever up for a furball

Now if you know your probably going to die anyway, as "most" do.  Be it in a furball or a base porking run yet you do it anyway, wouldn't that be considered suicidal?

I think so.

Actually I think that again "most" people would rather be able to RTB no matter what it is they are doing. Yet through as you put it "incompetence" the dont. Be it a furball or baseporking run.

To me, suiciders would be those that intentionally die by crashing intentionally into the ground or target.

And yet in several years now of my being here,I have seen very very very little evidence of this.
While there have been some.
Certainly not enough to substantiate or justify the whines we see on the boards about it.

     If you don't see it, you don't get out much.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Rino
If you don't see it, you don't get out much.

Oh I get out plenty. In fact I've made a habit of looking specifically for it for just this discussion.

And considering you haven't been in the MA in almost year and a half and then before that didn't spend alot of time there even before that (the last 3 months you hung out in the ma you were there 24, 21 , and 16 hours) it is obvious You rarely if ever get out at all.
Hell this month alone I've been there almost as much as you were the last 3 months you were there.
so you will excuse me if I view your statement as less then legitimate

 
I just dont see it and I've looked closely for it.
the very vast majority of the time they auger for entirely other reasons then intentional. In fact I see more that blow up on their way into the target then I do see crash into it. Also I see more that crash due to a lost wing or other catastrophic damage then I do see crash outright.
But again "most" blow up over the target not into it

I'd say if you are insisting you see it consistently there is a very high probability  not looking closely enough to distinguish exactly what has really happened. Which is easy to do if your not specifically looking for it.


Also I used to be a dedicated base porker I know at least as much as anyone what used to kill me and what didn't.
If I did crash into the ground it was because occasionally I screwed up or wasn't used to the plane I was in and compressed. Or ripped a wing. but the very vast majority of the time I did crash it was because of damage to my aircraft by either manned or auto ack.
And there have been many many occasions this same ack has blown me up right near the ground as I was pulling, or about to pull out of my dive.
Never. Not once have I nor have I known anyone in all my time here to intentionally crash into their target

[mechanic]

im not suicidal....somewhere in my excuse for a brain i think i *can* win this 10 on 1 fight and get home.

im just not bothered by virtual death enough to warrant running away from anything unless i have absloutely no ammo.

even happy to dive into a furball deadstick if situation permits.

[hubsonfire]

So, if I understand the point of all this, we should stop calling them 'suicide pork n auger dweebs' and start calling them 'careless, imcompetent, ack-magnet dweebs'?

Surviving a few minutes in a furball before getting jumped by a con is one thing. Repeated deaths from the ack, killing yourself with your own ordinance, or just good ol' augering are quite another.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
So, if I understand the point of all this, we should stop calling them 'suicide pork n auger dweebs' and start calling them 'careless, imcompetent, ack-magnet dweebs'?

Surviving a few minutes in a furball before getting jumped by a con is one thing. Repeated deaths from the ack, killing yourself with your own ordinance, or just good ol' augering are quite another.

Incompetence is incompetence no matter if your porking or furballing.
doesnt take any more skill to die in a furball then it does to die porking a base

[Guppy35]

Deaths aren't real, planes are free the second after you die.  Why wouldn't you dive into the mob?  You don't go in expecting to die, but hoping to test your limits.

I've been down on the deck in a 38G lately and more often then not I'll end up getting chopped in the crowd, but you know what?  I'm lasting longer and learning more about the limits of that bird, so what do I have to lose.....unless I'm worried about rank,points, perks and K/D.....which I am not.

Dan/Slack