Author Topic: "Barebones" system?  (Read 1009 times)

Offline StarOfAfrica2

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"Barebones" system?
« on: February 21, 2005, 12:51:50 AM »
This is a sweet rig, but how does it qualify as "barebones"?  The only thing missing is software, is that all it takes?  



http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=1229408&sku=A455-2112%20B&CMP=EMC-TIGEREMAIL&SRCCODE=WEM839C

Offline 38ruk

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"Barebones" system?
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2005, 01:59:08 AM »
its a sweet system , cas latency 3 ram though? hmmm.. needs a monitor as well ...

Offline Kev367th

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"Barebones" system?
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2005, 05:47:53 AM »
Why the hell would they use CAS 3 mem?
Always thought Tiger Direct were clueless, they have just confirmed it.

ALL socket 939's/742's should be run on CAS 2 memory, the CPU gets its speed from the lowest CAS memory because the memory controller is onboard the CPU not a seperate chip.

Lol they even have the gall to call it "Ultra" memory.

Still think you could source the parts seperately and come up slightly cheaper even with good memory.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2005, 05:51:11 AM by Kev367th »
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Offline eagl

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"Barebones" system?
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2005, 06:18:54 AM »
Except for the crummy memory it looks like a really fast system.

See if they'll let you substitute some better ram, or get it, sell the ram to some sucker, and buy some better stuff.
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Offline Siaf__csf

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"Barebones" system?
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2005, 12:55:59 PM »
Memory latency is not an issue with Athlon64 systems. Several tests concluded the difference was meaningless.

Offline Kev367th

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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2005, 01:05:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Memory latency is not an issue with Athlon64 systems. Several tests concluded the difference was meaningless.


Like to see one, everything I've read says that AMD64s are very sensitive to memory latency.
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Offline Siaf__csf

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"Barebones" system?
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2005, 03:02:07 PM »
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1637765,00.asp

1% difference doesn't justify paying a lot more for high-end ram. Most likely you'll run into instability problems or even a dead system while playing with memory settings on a64's. At least the older ones..

I really have no experience on the new models except the 3700+ on my laptop. I tried to tweak it for giggles but it hung on me :) Laptops rarely like overclocking.

On the other hand I could be wrong.. I'm too busy to follow the business these days.

Offline eagl

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"Barebones" system?
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2005, 03:06:47 PM »
The cas level matters for athlon64s, as does the command rate (1t vs. 2t).  The other memory settings are not as important as the FSB, which is what I think those memory latency articles were trying to say.  If your memory won't run fast latencies at stock FSB, they won't run at all at higher FSB.

I've done some testing on my own a64 rig and there are definate benefits to running cas 2 or 2.5 vs. cas 3.  The really hot rigs are running TCCD chip based memory and they're getting cas2 or 2.5 well up past 250mhz fsb if you set the voltage up high enough.  Some companies are even selling voltage boosters that plug into an empty ram slot and boost the memory voltage waaay up.  That's far too much effort for me, but I'm convinced that there are benefits to getting quality memory instead of the cheap stuff, both in performance and reliability.  And if you're going to overclock, you just can't be putting crap into the mix or you'll get crap for results right back out.

Decent cas2 (or 2.5) PC3200 or cas 2.5/(or 3) PC4000 is what you really want. No-name cas3 PC3200 is probably rebadged pc2100.  You should be able to get that stuff without spending much.  Crucial sells 512 meg sticks of cas 2.5 pc3200 for about $89, not much more than the crappy 2700 and slow 3200 stuff you get in the bargain bin.  And crucial will cross-ship you a replacement stick if it ever goes bad.  You won't get that from no-name retailers.  Want proof?  Go to Fry's and get a handful of their sale memory, any speed you like.  Put it in your computer, let it autodetect at it's "correct" speed, and run memcheck86 on it for a few hours.  I've done just that in the past, and I went through 6 sticks before I found one that was good.  I needed two, so I returned them all and had crucial send me some overnight.  Both the crucial sticks are still running faster than spec 4 years later, without errors.

That's what you get with quality memory, same as any other quality parts.  Speed and reliability.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2005, 03:09:01 PM by eagl »
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Offline Skuzzy

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"Barebones" system?
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2005, 03:41:13 PM »
I am with eagl on this.  Quality memory is a must for high end systems.

I like Crucial as they are one of a handful of companies in the world which make thier ram from the ground up.  This lends itself to being a better product.  They design and build every part of thier rams.

As a side note, it is funny how marketing helps a company.  Kingston was known as the Walmart of computer parts suppliers for years.  Now look at them.  Same garbage, but nice marketing and packaging and all of a sudden, people swear by them.

Cheap ram is just not worth the headaches to me.
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Offline Kev367th

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"Barebones" system?
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2005, 03:41:45 PM »
Can't beat the quality manufacturers for their lifetime guarentee and cross shipment policies.

Also as an FX53 (in the proposed system) is unlocked, pointless getting crappy CAS 3 memory.


Looking at the resultant thread from the article a few things come to mind -
1) He didn't test dual channel.
2) Wasn't on XP64
3) Therefore was a 32 bit testing prog, not 64 bit.

All of which 'could' make a difference.

Try getting a lot of 'cheap' CAS 3 stuff to even run dual channel.

Also getting the RAM to run at 1T does make a BIG difference.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2005, 04:06:21 PM by Kev367th »
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Offline 38ruk

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"Barebones" system?
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2005, 10:23:54 PM »
quality ram is a must imho, i see a difference between running CL2 and CL3 , for some off the higher overclocks ive had 230-235 fsb, my corsair ram craps out at a CL2 setting, at the higest clock 238 even 2.5 wont run , then its on to 3 . in my experience it better to run a lower fsb than run CL3, my system is a dog at 3, even with a 1T command rate   FWIW    <> 38

Offline Siaf__csf

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"Barebones" system?
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2005, 11:16:05 AM »
IMO if someone buys a barebone system and plans to use it straight from the box, the latencies are the least of his worries.

The system will run just fine on that memory.

That system is obviously an expensive mainstream box. Any serious overclocker would not only compile the system by hand but include phase change cooling, SATA raid with raptors or even scsi, voltage mods etc.

That's why I really don't see the CL3 ram an issue.

Offline humble

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"Barebones" system?
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2005, 11:38:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
I am with eagl on this.  Quality memory is a must for high end systems.

I like Crucial as they are one of a handful of companies in the world which make thier ram from the ground up.  This lends itself to being a better product.  They design and build every part of thier rams.

As a side note, it is funny how marketing helps a company.  Kingston was known as the Walmart of computer parts suppliers for years.  Now look at them.  Same garbage, but nice marketing and packaging and all of a sudden, people swear by them.

Cheap ram is just not worth the headaches to me.


How can you tell what level of ram you've got. I've got mushkin in one and kingston in the other...anyway to "spec" out the ram?

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Offline Kev367th

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"Barebones" system?
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2005, 12:05:32 PM »
CPU-Z
Although primarily for CPU stuff, ID's ram etc.

http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php
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Offline wombatt

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"Barebones" system?
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2005, 03:25:18 PM »
LOL AMD is finally catching up with Itell

BTW this is a 3 year old system and its still kickin butt