Author Topic: Question to Finns (Read 25156 times)

Raven_2 · « **Reply #1005 on:** April 01, 2005, 09:40:25 PM »

to Toad

>>16 by East Germans? You ARE delusional. Do some research.

I said about monument, not about total number of deaths.

>>So back in the good old days anyone could leave the USSR anytime, right? Permits to leave forever were easy to obtain?

Sure. Write "Archipelago GULAG" or do something similiar :-) After that they deportate you from the country :-) For serious, I already said that there is a lot of ex-soviet jews in Israel. If you work on military or something that there were no way way for you to leave. For others that were possible.

>>Don't you think it odd that EVERY Commie country had to make extreme attempts to keep their citizens from leaving?

China. There lot of chinese immigrants here, both legal and not.

>>Thank you! You just used the Nazi Nuremberg excuse, pointing out once again how similar you are.

So, you think that all German people (including all mens, some kids and womans) should be executed cause they support nazi regime? Whole nation must be punished? Resposibility of the whole nation? But this *is* nazism! So, you show again that USA ideology equal to nazi ideology.

Raven_2 · « **Reply #1006 on:** April 01, 2005, 09:41:05 PM »

to Simaril

>>And our leader's attitude toward the rebels?

They were no rebels. It was military formations, powered by Poland, Finland, France, England and USA interventions. They occupy > 1/2 of Russia`s territory during civil war. After bolsheviky with people support drive them back, part of them pass to communist side. After that, they try to shot some of the bolsheviks leaders and so on. They were trraitors. Most of them just emmigrate to Europe after they lose civil war. Those, who really join communists, not for treachery purpose, were given all respect.

>>And Raven, looking at what you snipped out of the TIME article about the Berlin Wall incident, versus the entire article in context, it seems pretty obvious that you are less interested in what is true than in what supports your position.

This was from Wikipedia. There were no full article, only this part.

>>Raven, I have a friends who were living in Russia as English teachers a few years ago.

"A few years ago". As I said, it what "democracisation process" did with our country.

>>They were told that if they didnt stop teaching, they or their kids would end up dead too.

An ordinary chechen way of interaction. About 99% of drugdealing come from Chechnya ("Ichkeria" for you). Still wonder why we hate them? Still, you call this bastards a "rebels".

BTW, why so efficient economics like yours have 9000 billions external debts and still growing? 40% of them in Japan/China hands...

This post in russian I asked Boroda to translate - very interesting. The main point is that USA now lives on the debt money. You have a huge external debt, you owe money to the whole world - that`s why your life level so high. And that`s why dollar slowly stagnate. China, Japan and Russia now support dollar, but when they release it... BAM. Your economic would collapse. And without strong industry (all your goods manufactured in China, USA has only labs and managers) this took a LOT of time to get up to the feets.

You see, my parents had ~200.000$ into the real estate/cars/jewelry/on account and got ~3.000$ per month (~1000$ spend on goods, others go to savings). They not a bussinesmans, just clerks. In Moscow situation the same but numbers are higher, they get ~7000$ on savings per month. See? Our people *earn* money. And your people *spent* them. How much equity of ordinary USA household not including credits? We now save money and invest them. You now spend money, accumulating an enormous external debt. That`s why your life level so high. And that`s why it wouldn`t be so for long.

Raven_2 · « **Reply #1007 on:** April 01, 2005, 09:46:46 PM »

to Simaril

>>I would argue that history strongly shows that governmental/economic systems and the belief systems that underlie them have a HUGE impact on countries. I'd be interested in any logical evidence you cuold provide to the contrary.

You misunderstand. I said that opinion about econoimc of country cannot be based only on govermental system of this country. You must take into account ideology, geography, histroy, beliefs and so on.

Siaf__csf · « **Reply #1008 on:** April 03, 2005, 01:44:23 AM »

Raven2 the statistics you gave do _not_ correlate with what I've seen first hand.

The average person living in soviet union had at maximum 20% of the quality of living any westerner had at the same time.

Soviet union was the only place in the world where I've visited and instantly regreted going there.

Raven_2 · « **Reply #1009 on:** April 03, 2005, 06:29:52 AM »

to Sciaf

>>Raven2 the statistics you gave do _not_ correlate with what I've seen first hand.

What do you mean? What statistics I gave? About GDP during 39-45? And what you see before? Post it.

>>The average person living in soviet union had at maximum 20% of the quality of living any westerner had at the same time.

According to... your opinion? Maybe you learn to find some docs to support your words at last?

>>Soviet union was the only place in the world where I've visited and instantly regreted going there.

In previous posts you claim that you been in Russia not so long ago. Now you say that you was in USSR (that mean you been here before 1985). A question: did you was here at all? Maybe only in slumber? :-)

Boroda · « **Reply #1010 on:** April 03, 2005, 11:49:44 AM »

Siaf, Scheissenwerfer misfire again. Be carefull, the model you use may explode.

Looks like you only have read some horror stories about USSR/Russia.

"Higher living standards" in the West are another myth. Or, more precisely, it depends on how you count.

Siaf__csf · « **Reply #1011 on:** April 03, 2005, 05:01:39 PM »

I visited USSR in 1984 and later russia in 1995. Any westerner who has visited your country will back my assesment up.

No need for any statistics for that.

It's really hard to believe that either one of you has ever stepped outside your borders, that much delusional your ranting is.

ASTAC · « **Reply #1012 on:** April 03, 2005, 05:07:30 PM »

I've been to USSR, seen alot of similarities...the hard thing to admit is that through our schools our Gov't fills us with as much propaganda as theirs did...to say one is better than the other in that respect is just idiotic...no one on either side will ever know the truth about their own country..much less someone elses...it's a useless argument..and all should agree to disagree and try to watch critizizng for stuff we really know nothing about.

Thrawn · « **Reply #1013 on:** April 03, 2005, 05:54:33 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Raven_2
BTW, why so efficient economics like yours have 9000 billions external debts and still growing? 40% of them in Japan/China hands...

I've already explained this to you, but of course it doesn't fit your agenda you refuse to remember it, just like everytime someone kicks the hell out of your "arguements".

What you fail to mention (running theme with you, what with your selective editing), is how well the rest of the western world is doing economically. The CCCP had a crap standard of living during communism (as has been shown at least in regards to your abismal longevity and infant mortality rates). Although the CCCP was technologically advance compared to many countries, compared to the west it was far behind. I find it Ironic that you are using US/western European technology to even communicate with us.

I can understand your frustration though, what with you being 21 and young Russian women fleeing you country, not only for the west, but heck they even think the middle and far east better than than old CCCP countries.

ASTAC · « **Reply #1014 on:** April 03, 2005, 06:12:01 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Thrawn

I can understand your frustration though, what with you being 21 and young Russian women fleeing you country, not only for the west, but heck they even think the middle and far east better than than old CCCP countries. [/B]

In the middle east they mostly work at brothels..sad that thats a better life then your home country.

Been to Dubai and Bahrain...so I'm not just making assumptions.. (though I myself as a married man did not visit the brothels)..alot of sailors came back with plenty of stories.

Siaf__csf · « **Reply #1015 on:** April 04, 2005, 12:39:07 AM »

Where ever you go in europe, you can be sure that the hookers are mostly russians.

This is pretty amazing that they travel thousands of kilometers to sell themselves, but they do.

Someone said once that beautiful women are the main merchandise of russia and he was pretty right on the money.

Poverty stricken young women get sold by busloads on slave markets. They're promised mid-waged jobs in the west but in reality they're sold as slaves.

Raven_2 · « **Reply #1016 on:** April 04, 2005, 02:17:27 AM »

to Sciaf

>>I visited USSR in 1984 and later russia in 1995. Any westerner who has visited your country will back my assesment up.

There were Olimpic Games at 1980 in Moscow, so there were a LOT of westerners. I think, if all of them had opinions like you, we would already know about that :-) But they keep silence - so, they were satisfied with our livilng conditions.

>>Where ever you go in europe, you can be sure that the hookers are mostly russians.

Yeah-yeah-yeah. All blacks are drugdealers, all arabs are terrorists, all englisman are gays and all americans are 300 kg stupid bags of shirt with IQ < 50. Stereotype thinking again?

to ASTAC

>>I've been to USSR, seen alot of similarities...the hard thing to admit is that through our schools our Gov't fills us with as much propaganda as theirs did...to say one is better than the other in that respect is just idiotic...no one on either side will ever know the truth about their own country..much less someone elses...it's a useless argument..and all should agree to disagree and try to watch critizizng for stuff we really know nothing about.

I`m agree with you, but I was on defending first and this was my start point: there no angels, each system and each disadvantages, each country commited bad things in it past. Still, there lot of people that think about USSR/Russia like Empire of Evil with awfull living conditions and think that USA is something totally diferent, country and regime without bad sides at all.

to Thrawn

>>I find it Ironic that you are using US/western European technology to even communicate with us.

Bah. DARPANet was USA thing. Internet is not. US technology?

And maybe you should recollect Kotelnikov theoreme? About analog-digit transformation? This is a mathematical basics of all digital audio, IP-telephony and stuff. So, we should call all this things "russian invention"?

It`s stupid. Fundamental basics of modern science were founded by scientists throught whole world. Mostly by german, france, england and russian. American science was always applied, not fundamental. Only now things tend to change.

Say that global network is US technology cause first such net was created at USA, it`s like say that space traveling is Soviet technology, cause first satelite Sputnik was launched by Soviets first.

BTW, there were (and are) global military networks in USSR, our dean work for military on this in 1970-75.

>>I can understand your frustration though, what with you being 21 and young Russian women fleeing you country, not only for the west, but heck they even think the middle and far east better than than old CCCP countries.

None of my friends/girlfriends ever gathered to leave our country.

>>Although the CCCP was technologically advance compared to many countries, compared to the west it was far behind.

:-) So, you admit that USSR can be compared only to the whole "West" (USA and/or whole bunch of Europe countries), not with single Europe country alone?

Siaf__csf · « **Reply #1017 on:** April 04, 2005, 04:51:20 AM »

Sorry Raven not russians, ex soviet as in whole.

I bet that nobody saw real life during the moscow olympics (which was also the reason why the bums were shipped away for that duration, cleanup operation).

Funny that you persist in denying of my own experience. Maybe others are too PC to say flat out loud what they think about the conditions down there.

Despair · « **Reply #1018 on:** April 04, 2005, 05:14:46 AM »

I just wonder if believing that your country is TEH BEST gives you any warm feeling within.

Raven_2 · « **Reply #1019 on:** April 05, 2005, 01:13:14 AM »

to Thrawn

Bush cut off NASA financing by 30% - from 75.000.000 to 53.000.000. Voyager and Ulyssess planned to be closed at october 2005. By Washington Post.

As you understand, fundamental science suffer first when country short on money. But space program is not supercollider or something. Space program and nuclear wepons are distinguishing strias of superpower. And now USA government reduce financing of it...

BTW, why don`t reduce 400 billions budget of military instead? Maybe, `cause military is the only reason why US economic still alive?

to Despair

You address this to me?

to Sciaf

>>Funny that you persist in denying of my own experience.

The only reason for that is that I myself and my parents have their own expirience :-)