Author Topic: Dealing with mortality...?  (Read 665 times)

Offline StSanta

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2496
Dealing with mortality...?
« on: March 15, 2005, 01:32:33 PM »
I'm in a bit of a loss here.

A few month ago an acquaintance turning into friend got himself killed. It was a preventable accident but also one that could happen to any one of the people I call friends. And to myself.

There's a saying in the sport - "stick with skydiving long enough and you'll have good friends die". I thought it was machoism speaking but recent events/review of statistics show it's true. The 10+ year'ers I know have developed extremely thick skin and seem emotionally detached to such events.

I just don't know how to deal with it. In developing such thick skin it seems to me you lose some of your humanity. On the other hand, you'll go crazy if you keep thinking about it. It's no fun staring into someone's smiling face if you're thinking it may be the last time you see that.

So what the hell do you do? I have since long accepted the risks for myself, personally. But I got loved ones doing it too. People I couldn't live without.

Man, I'm confused. There's something out there that I *just don't get* and it may be important.

Offline Yeager

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10167
Dealing with mortality...?
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2005, 01:42:36 PM »
People who are reckless to themselves in the pursuit of excitement are emotionally disfigured.  Seek professional help.
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline Sandman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17620
Dealing with mortality...?
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2005, 01:56:45 PM »
Take solace in the fact that they died doing something that they love and that they were fully aware of the risks.
sand

storch

  • Guest
Dealing with mortality...?
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2005, 02:02:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
Take solace in the fact that they died doing something that they love and that they were fully aware of the risks.


or ponder the possibility that you may be a whimp.  buck up a bit, you'll be glad you did.  :D

Offline Sandman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17620
Dealing with mortality...?
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2005, 02:12:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
or ponder the possibility that you may be a whimp.  buck up a bit, you'll be glad you did.  :D


That's what I said. :p
sand

storch

  • Guest
Dealing with mortality...?
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2005, 02:19:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
That's what I said. :p


I was a little more direct.  your fine message shouldn't risk being misinterpreted.  that would truly be a tragedy.  why use a scalpel when hand granades do so nicely?  :D

Offline eagl

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6769
Dealing with mortality...?
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2005, 02:20:17 PM »
In the flying community we face the same problem.  In 10 years of military flying I've seen one friend, some squadron mates, several classmates, my orthodontist and his wife, and a former student of mine die in aviation accidents.

First, I'll tell you it doesn't get any easier.  That may be a comfort to you since the pain is proof that you're still human.

How do military pilots deal with it?  Any number of psychologically identifiable methods are at play but here is an amature's take on the whole thing.

When something like this happens, the first thing we do is take care of business.  Someone gets to go pick up the pieces of the plane, the dead pilot, and someone else has to try to hold together the lives of the surviving family members.  Records and evidence must be preserved for the obligatory investigations.  Business first, and that keeps people busy for a while as the shock sets in.

After (or during) this initial timeframe, a lot of the time we go get drunk in the squadron bar or O-club.  Everyone deals with it differently including getting angry, sad, expressing disbelief, trying to find an explanation, but right away what I've seen is we tend to come together as a group for a bit of mourning in the bar.

At some point there tends to be a transition to finding lessons learned.  First, we learn from the person or people who have been lost.  What can we learn from how they lived their lives?  Ideas for appropriate memorials are dreamed up and brought to reality, knowing that a memorial should be be a triumphant celebration of a life, not merely a sad reminder of a death.  We also learn from the incident itself.  This can take on a very personal meaning if you're the instructor for a student who died, or someone who is doing the exact same thing as the one guy who didn't go home that day.  Everyone re-evaluates their own conduct, taking home their own lessons learned.

And bravado comes into play, helping keep us from turning inward and thinking too much about all the what-if scenarios.  Tradition helps focus people on the future.  Ceremony is important when there must remain a focus on a dangerous mission even in the face of tragedy.  It may be a simple thing.  Our squadron bar has a place where every pilot or WSO who has been in the squadron in the last decade or two has left a nametag when they left.  When one of them dies, and everyone dies eventually, the nametag is turned upside down.  A simple thing, but it reminds us that nobody is forgotten.  A toast to the fallen comrades, a toast to the future, a personal vow that it'll never happen to me, and one more coat of polish is carefully put onto the thick egotistical shell that surrounds any fighter pilot worth a damn.  Under the shell may be a human, but damned if any outsider is ever going to find out and pass me another beer you ^*%(^%.

Because we all know at while we pretend it won't happen to us, and we try not to do the math that proves that the statistical probability we'll be directly involved with a fatal mishap approaches certainty throughout our flying careers, we still have a mission to do and holding on to defeatist negativity is the best way to ensure you're either going to be the next dead guy or completely ineffective.

It's different for every group.  Fighter pilots fall back on each other, tradition, and a thick shell for an ego to deal with it.  It's never easy but we have coping mechanisms that go back generations.  Living an intentionally hazardous life (ie. skydiving for fun or profit) involves both a calculated risk and a decision about the relative value of the quality vs. quantity of life.  The comparison between the dead hero and live coward applies to life in general, not just combat.  How safe do you really want to be?  Are there some things in life that are worth taking risks?

I tell you one thing I do know - I see people who smoke, drink, drive too aggressively, take drugs, etc. and they're risking their lives for things that seem pitifully trivial compared to the joy many people get from other high risk outdoor activities like rock climbing, skydiving, and flying.  Yes, if you partake in any of these activities, whether it's doing drugs or flying, you're probably going to see the death of someone close to you much sooner than you'd like.  The question is if the life benefits of that activity worth the risk?  I know I've drawn the line for myself, and it's somewhere between flying fighters (fun) and bungie jumping (stupid and unnecessary).  

Just remember that those close to you have faced the same choices and made their decisions, and honor their lives when they're gone.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline Sandman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17620
Dealing with mortality...?
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2005, 02:23:14 PM »
Thanx Eagl...
sand

Offline Skydancer

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1606
Dealing with mortality...?
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2005, 02:26:29 PM »
Same for many Bikers StSanta.

I understand how you feel. I've lost a few good freinds along the way, and my fiance rides too. I dread anything happening to her. But a life lived full on even if brief is better than a life lived long and dull. If you love someone and the thing they do however dangerous brings them real joy, then that joy is worth every moment.

Actualy we live in the safest most regulated times ever. Life was far more dangerous in the past. Any number of things could carry you off, from war to disease to natural disaster. I think sometimes we do these dangerous things to compensate for the anesthetic safe environment we live in.  When blokes uesd to have to go ff to wars or fly fighter planes over europe/far east, dangerous sports probably seemed like a realy bad idea.

Offline Sandman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17620
Dealing with mortality...?
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2005, 02:30:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
I was a little more direct.  your fine message shouldn't risk being misinterpreted.  that would truly be a tragedy.  why use a scalpel when hand granades do so nicely?  :D


:D I hear ya..
sand

Offline OIO

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1520
Dealing with mortality...?
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2005, 02:37:53 PM »
Try scuba diving.


Unlike skydiving, you DO have a chance to 'make it' if your equipment fails.

;)

Offline john9001

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9453
Dealing with mortality...?
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2005, 02:49:30 PM »
being an "old fart" i have had many friends die, we all die, some sooner, some later. i must be one of the later.

Offline Goth

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 621
Dealing with mortality...?
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2005, 02:58:07 PM »
Eagl hit on some major points. When it's not someone close to you it's ok to thicken your skin about the situation. When it's someone close, embrace the loss and celebrate the life.

If loved ones skydive with you the only thing you can do is not become complacent. Double check your equipment and have your friends check you over while you check them. 2 heads are better than one when it comes to remembering details.

Lastly, accidents happen, this is not a perfect world. You are pursuing an exciting  lifestyle doing what you do, and with it come greater risks than just walking around the block. Best thing I can suggest about prepping yourself for something like that is to not live in fear.

Offline mosgood

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1548
Dealing with mortality...?
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2005, 03:12:16 PM »
Your viewpoint about death has a lot to do with it as well.

Personally, I find a part of myself envying my friends that die because they get to see what's next before me.  Of course it's hard on thier families and I'm not saying that I'm not sensitive to that.

I remember when I got the call that my grandfather died, I walked outside my apartment, wished him well on his journey and knew that he was ok.

This doesn't mean that I don't miss him... I do.  It's just part of my faith that allows me to feel this way.

Offline capt. apathy

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4240
      • http://www.moviewavs.com/cgi-bin/moviewavs.cgi?Bandits=danger.wav
Dealing with mortality...?
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2005, 03:18:54 PM »
between my teenage years, my bike years, and construction work as I got older, I've been to about 2-3 times as many funerals as weddings.  some have hit really close to home (best friends, nephew who was raised like a brother) and they all hurt (all the funerals anyway.  only some of the weddings).

this is where those odd society traditions come in.  you have funerals, wakes, drop off food to the family, visit his mother and tell her what a great guy she raised and what her son meant to you.

basically you go on auto-pilot for awhile, try not to dwell on it too much, have a few drinks when you can't help it, and keep busy doing the things that society expects you to do.  hopefully you'll have a handle on it by the time the work is done.

as far as risky sports or lifestyles.  it doesn't bother me so much when a guy checks out this way (assuming he's doing it for love of the activity and not just a danger junkie).  I don't find a life lost this way as so much a tragedy as the guy who makes it to 80 and never got up the guts to live at all.