The difference between Sabot, HE, and Heat rounds

[zorstorer]

Rog-O Shubie, didn't get to see much of the base while we trained there.  I hear the next gen of sims are quite nice.

[Maverick]

Up until several years ago there were several types of ammunition for US tanks maingun(105mm).

They were:
Sabot
Heat
HEP
Beehive

Sabot, High velocity solid projectile

Heat, A shaped charge, the large protrusion at the nose is both fuse and the tool used to detonate the charge the proper distance from the armor for maximum penetration.

HEP, High explosive plastic, basicaly a bunker or pilbox killing device. It could take out an armored vehicle by exploding on the outside and causing spalling, fragments of armor on the inside of the vehicle fly off the side of the armor opposite the explosion and zing around the inside of the vehicle until they hit something.

Beehive, A timed explosive round filled with hundreds of nails with fins on them. It turned the gun into a giant shotgun. The round would explode yards before it got to the enemy troops and fragment making an expanding cone of small darts. Very nasty.

HEP and Beehive were removed from the inventory. Heat could do the same job as hep with a flatter trajectory. Beehive was removed without explanation. It did have a problem with the timer as it took time to set it before firing. That made it less effective for rapid use.

[GtoRA2]

Hey Mav
 With all the city fighting the US troops are doing, have you heard if they are making a canister round for the current 120MM gun in the M1?

Didnt the old 90MM have this round? Like a big shotgun shell, no timers or anything cause the round brakes up right at the muzzle?

[GScholz]

Originally posted by Maverick
Up until several years ago there were several types of ammunition for US tanks maingun(105mm).

They were:
Sabot
Heat
HEP
Beehive

Sabot, High velocity solid projectile

Heat, A shaped charge, the large protrusion at the nose is both fuse and the tool used to detonate the charge the proper distance from the armor for maximum penetration.

HEP, High explosive plastic, basicaly a bunker or pilbox killing device. It could take out an armored vehicle by exploding on the outside and causing spalling, fragments of armor on the inside of the vehicle fly off the side of the armor opposite the explosion and zing around the inside of the vehicle until they hit something.

Beehive, A timed explosive round filled with hundreds of nails with fins on them. It turned the gun into a giant shotgun. The round would explode yards before it got to the enemy troops and fragment making an expanding cone of small darts. Very nasty.

HEP and Beehive were removed from the inventory. Heat could do the same job as hep with a flatter trajectory. Beehive was removed without explanation. It did have a problem with the timer as it took time to set it before firing. That made it less effective for rapid use.

What happened to the STAFF top-attack round?

[Maverick]

GTO,

I haven't heard of any more canister rounds. While they sound kinda neat there is too much risk to friendly troops in the vicinity. ANYONE in front would be a frag stat. and that isn't good when you count on the crunchies to keep your back clean.

Gscholz,
 Are you referring to the anti tank missle that flies over the turret and detonates a shaped charge at a downward angle? That isn't a part of the US tank gun inventory if so.

[zorstorer]

From what I remember it was a top attack guided round.  Also for use vs helos.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m943.htm

Guess it never made it past the X stage.

As for the canister round, also in the X stage.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m1028.htm

[Wolfala]

We should really make this a sticky.

[bolillo_loco]

you guys are silly dont you know that all you need is a 50 bmg to go tiger hunting? oh sorry I will return to my previous state of being dormant.

nice illistrations thanks.

[Ecliptik]

Originally posted by frank3
Wow, that HE round really didn't do that much damage

and DANG that heat round is awsome! They used it against infantry didn't they?

HE is not for anti-tank use, it's designed for maximum effect against infantry and buildings, with a wide area of effect and lots of shrapnel.  HEAT rounds use a shaped explosive charge to propel a jet of molten metal through tank armor.   It has very narrow dispersion on impact and would have little effect against infantry in the open.  Most anti-tank missiles and rockets including the common RPG-7 use the same principles because the technology allows a relatively low-velocity projectile to more effectively penetrate armor.  Again, it's tough to kill foot soldiers with these rockets without scoring direct hits.

[frank3]

Thanks Ecliptik, you seem to know alot about it!

[spitfiremkv]

somebody posta  pic of the King Tiger. I wanna see how big that is compared to other tanks!

[zorstorer]

Originally posted by Ecliptik
HE is not for anti-tank use, it's designed for maximum effect against infantry and buildings, with a wide area of effect and lots of shrapnel.  HEAT rounds use a shaped explosive charge to propel a jet of molten metal through tank armor.   It has very narrow dispersion on impact and would have little effect against infantry in the open.  Most anti-tank missiles and rockets including the common RPG-7 use the same principles because the technology allows a relatively low-velocity projectile to more effectively penetrate armor.  Again, it's tough to kill foot soldiers with these rockets without scoring direct hits.

The HESH round (High Explosive Squash Head) was a large HE round with a deformable skin that was meant to attatch itself to the tank and detonate a fraction of time later, this would break off pieces of armor on the inside of the tank creating little chunks of armor bouncing around the fighting compartment at very high speed creating a blender effect (spalls).  One reason US armored vehicles have a kevlar lining on the inside.  Also the HEAT round is effective vs infantry even without a direct hit.  The skin of the round will still project out when the round is detonated.


The 1st line from the HEAT round...
"The 120mm M830 High Explosive Anti-Tank-Multi Purpose - Tracer (HEAT-MP-T) is a chemical energy, multi-purpose projectile with an anti-personnel capability."
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m830a1.htm

[SunTracker]

Heres a cutaway view of a Tiger II captured by U.S. forces.  The lighting is very bad inside the museum, so this is the best picture I have of it.  The Tiger II dwarfs the M4m8 Sherman sitting beside it.  Even the gun barrel is about twice as long.

[Charon]

There's an old urban legend from back in the day that goes like this:

If you're buttoned up in your M-113 (or similar lightly armored ****box) and it gets hit by a SABOT round, which will naturally pass right through without slowing down, it will suck the contents of the vehicle (human) out the exit hole Always seemd to be a bit much to me, but stranger things happen. Of course, there was always the "I knew some guys on some range that captured a fox and put it inside and..." story to back it up when called BS.

Charon

[Ecliptik]

Originally posted by zorstorer
The HESH round (High Explosive Squash Head) was a large HE round with a deformable skin that was meant to attatch itself to the tank and detonate a fraction of time later, this would break off pieces of armor on the inside of the tank creating little chunks of armor bouncing around the fighting compartment at very high speed creating a blender effect (spalls).  One reason US armored vehicles have a kevlar lining on the inside.  Also the HEAT round is effective vs infantry even without a direct hit.  The skin of the round will still project out when the round is detonated.


The 1st line from the HEAT round...
"The 120mm M830 High Explosive Anti-Tank-Multi Purpose - Tracer (HEAT-MP-T) is a chemical energy, multi-purpose projectile with an anti-personnel capability."
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m830a1.htm

Nice page zorstorer.  The M830 round is, of course, far more advanced and deadly than any HEAT round fielded in WWII or for decades after.