Author Topic: For all those of you who defend death penalty: (Read 2485 times)

R4M · « **on:** June 06, 2001, 07:30:00 PM »

One name, two lessons:

Jose Joaquin Martinez is the name.

The two lessons are

1-In the USA when you dont have a buck you get sentenced to death with such equivocal "proofs" that they would be laughable, if it wasnt so shameful.But if you can pay 600000$ to a lawyer then you get free. So much for the equality of citizens in front of the Justice.

2-Had Martinez's parents not been able to pay the expensive Lawyer costs, he would be now toasted, buried, for a crime he had not committed. BTW the money was not from their parents, but collected in a public collect here in spain. Needless to say I took part in the collect.

I hope you learn both lessons, and fast. I dont wanna know how many men have been toasted alive because they could not afford paying an expensive lawyer.

[ 06-06-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #1 on:** June 06, 2001, 07:57:00 PM »

Didn't you quit for good this time?

R4M · « **Reply #2 on:** June 06, 2001, 08:09:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
Didn't you quit for good this time?

yes, I cancelled my AH account. That does forbid me to post in this BBS?. Even in the O'topic forum?.

I think not. In any case if that is all you have to say regarding this topic, then it is sad.

Staga · « **Reply #3 on:** June 06, 2001, 08:52:00 PM »

DjV that one was most idiotic answer I've seen for a while.
Wasn't it you who were concerned about this so called community?

Looks like all you guys can do is picking other players. Well thats nothing new.
So keep up posting watermelon but please do not post those threads again where you ask ppl to behave nicely.

SOB · « **Reply #4 on:** June 06, 2001, 09:07:00 PM »

Yup, still in favor of the death penalty.

MrBill · « **Reply #5 on:** June 06, 2001, 09:34:00 PM »

Methinks that perhaps you should put a bit more thought into this one.

Is the death penalty the problem ... or are the courts/leagle system the problem.

We also have Charles Manson wasting air in prison.

Staga · « **Reply #6 on:** June 06, 2001, 10:19:00 PM »

So what happened in that Martinez case ?
I tried to find some info from N.Y.Times but all I found was McVeigh case.

Toad · « **Reply #7 on:** June 06, 2001, 10:35:00 PM »

Here's the brief.

Supreme Court of Florida
____________
No. SC90952
____________
JOAQUIN J. MARTINEZ,
Appellant,
vs.
STATE OF FLORIDA,
Appellee.
[June 15, 2000]
PER CURIAM.
Joaquin J. Martinez appeals his convictions of armed burglary, two counts of
first-degree murder, and sentence of death. We have jurisdiction. See art. V, §
3(b)(1), Fla. Const.
FACTS

http://www.law.fsu.edu/library/flsupct/sc90952/op-sc90952.pdf

Read it and evaluate it for yourself; then see what you think.

This thing is dated June 2000. The result was "Accordingly, for the reasons stated in this opinion, we reverse Martinez's convictions, vacate his sentences, and remand for a new trial."

I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play on online

but it appears to me in reading it that the reversal is based primarily on this:

"The trial court ruled that the audio-video tape could be played for the jury and
that the State could provide jurors with the copies of the written transcript. The jurors
were allowed to read the thirty-three-page transcript as an unadmitted court exhibit while prosecutors played the surveillance tape to the jurors."

From what I gather, the Supremes found the use of the unadmitted transcript a rather LARGE "No-No".

Didn't find anything on a "new trial" so far. It could be over or not yet started.

[ 06-06-2001: Message edited by: Toad ]

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #8 on:** June 06, 2001, 11:42:00 PM »

Quote

DjV that one was most idiotic answer I've seen for a while.
Wasn't it you who were concerned about this so called community?

Yes it was.. and is.

I always like to see little boys stomp off in a huff because they aren't getting their way and then still insist that they are a part of it all.

I also like the way you always come to their rescue you noble steed.

As for the rest of it... well... its pretty much BS anyways. How this case can serve as any kind of "the death penalty is unjust" example is ludicrus. More of a "money can buy your way out of it" example.

AKDejaVu

R4M · « **Reply #9 on:** June 07, 2001, 06:42:00 AM »

Dejavu, I'm sure that all those people posting in AGW when they have their WB account closed since literally years, do not receive such a stupid answer as I got from you.

I have not seen a similar answer in this BBS to any Wilbus' or Hazed's or anyone else who has quitted AH's post. Happens that you dont like me and you have to spit your crap on my and my posts. Its Ok. just say it so instead of hiding your real motives.

Quote

Originally posted by MrBill:
Methinks that perhaps you should put a bit more thought into this one.

Is the death penalty the problem ... or are the courts/leagle system the problem.

We also have Charles Manson wasting air in prison.

This is a fair comment, but I think that both are screwed.

1-the courts/legal system is clearly screwed. If a man gets a penalty of death with such equivocal (laughable) proofs presented in the trials (in both trials the same proofs were used), then there is something really WRONG with the current legal system.

2-The penalty of death just makes things worse. A man, like Martinez, gets a penalty of death being innocent and as I said, had his family not been able to pay a good lawyer now he would be roasted and buried.

In short, Death penalty makes the situation worse. Unfair trials with unfair prison penalties are bad, but at least there is a chance you'll get out of prison after some years when something or someone proofs your innocence. IF the penalty is death, then the proof better arrives soon enough or it will be too late...forever.

3-It is clear that the people are not equal in a court of justice. This is true everywhere, but the proofs of that trial (the video where "supossedly" -in fact you can't hear anything in that video- Martinez answers "yes" to his wife) were SO screwed and equivocal that I cant understand HOW even the most inutil,cheap lawyer did not achieve martinez's freedom since the start.

All in all my point is based more in the fact that Death Penalty is impossible to remediate once applied; and that given the HOLE difference between expensive and cheap lawyers, I'm sure that there have been many innocents roasted last years in the USA for crimes they had not committed.

Is my opinion that this is food for thought.

R4M · « **Reply #10 on:** June 07, 2001, 06:49:00 AM »

one last thing, dont read in my post such thing as a slam to the justice in the USA. I am slamming justice almost everywher.

What I DO intend is to give a slam to the Death Penalty.

In USA you get this kind of unfair trials, in spain, a man who has killed his wife with a knife, hitting her 25 times gets a lowering of his penalty because he "was raged", or the policeman who abused a 13 year old girld gets free because the girl "already had sexual experience" (¿?!!!!!) . And I am sure that both trials would've been different with different, nore expensive lawyers

Justice is crappy almost everywhere, but at least here you dont go to the Electrical Chair for a crime you havent committed. In the US you do...and that is my point.

[ 06-07-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #11 on:** June 07, 2001, 07:35:00 AM »

Quote

Dejavu, I'm sure that all those people posting in AGW when they have their WB account closed since literally years, do not receive such a stupid answer as I got from you.

I bet you are right. The AGW board is: http://agw.dogfighter.com . Please... feel free to make that your new home so you can tell them how much better it is at other boards.

And I'm sure they are real supportive to anyone that's quit Warbirds 4 times all the while citing how much better other games are and how crappy theirs is. I highly suggest you give that community a try.

Quote

Justice is crappy almost everywhere, but at least here you dont go to the Electrical Chair for a crime you havent committed. In the US you do...and that is my point.

1. Show a link with evidence that this person did not commit the crime. The one Toad showed gave no such indication. Its called a technicality... meaning they did it, but something was handled wrong at the trial.

2. Life imprisonment for someone wrongly commited of a crime is somehow better than the death penalty?

I am all for the death penalty. What I am not for is the political games played around it and around major convictions in general. This happens when your prosecutors are elected officials more concerned about giving the voters what they want than justice.

...And... this guy deserves it.

AKDejaVu

-lynx- · « **Reply #12 on:** June 07, 2001, 07:59:00 AM »

Hmmm... I side with dejavu here - the guy has not been found not guilty, he's just got a good (expensive and partly paid for by RAM who can't find no casharoonies to pay AH bill...

) defence lawyer who got him off on technicality. You call this justice?

Eagler · « **Reply #13 on:** June 07, 2001, 08:10:00 AM »

the tape that convicted him the first time was banded as evidence the second time. Does this make him not guilty?? I don't think so, just another lawyer who needs a pair of cement shoes and swimming lessons, same pair as timmy's lawyers should be wearing.

I am not for lethal injection or electrocution, I am for STONING them to death on PPV...Yeah we'd get a few wrong, but the lives saved through decreased crime would be worth the cost.

Eagler

straffo · « **Reply #14 on:** June 07, 2001, 08:17:00 AM »

.

[ 06-07-2001: Message edited by: straffo ]