People who love their children...

[mrfish]

well let's see miko2d...lets get in the time machine and take a trip..it's 1947....what's the score in the administered region of the san remo treaty known as palestine:

Palestinians:
- 2/3 of the population
- own 92% of the land
- propose that a representative government be established where both jew and palestinian are represented in a congressional model based on population - share the land and power - inspired by our own democratic process they appeal to the US for support - suspiciously the US does not commit to the fledgling democracy????

Jews:
-   1/3 of the population
-   own 8% of the land
-   propose that they be awarded their own  autonomous state - occupying the best coast line and a buffer in the negev desert - they want 1/2 of the land available even though they only have 8% now - over the thanksgiving holiday in which the UN waited to vote on land distribution they call their favors, bribe and threaten everyone they can and end up getting a steal of a deal.

how would you like it if suddenly some ethnic minority only owned 8% of the land was suddenly given 50% of the land? what if it were your land? why did the US vote against a shared power proposal based on our own constitution? are you so conditioned by the media that you just accept their poor lil' isreal line?- like i said miko2d:

rats

[This message has been edited by mrfish (edited 03-07-2001).]

[Ripsnort]

What he is suggesting is one of having schools in the US have assigned teachers that have had proper training on how to use firearms, and have them pack heat in case a kid decides to get revenge.

I am personally against that, as one careless act could end up with the gun in a students hands, or worse, fired and killing some innocent bystander.

[Boroda]

Great!

Just imagined a fight between two excursions on a Red Square, one from a school in a proletarian district like Textilschiki and another one from an English-speaking school from the Center, after one of the kids calls another a bad word.

Question: should the Lenin's Mausoleum guards interfere, and what side they will choose?

------------------
With respect,
    Pavel Pavlov,
    Commissar 25th IAP WB VVS

[miko2d]

 

Originally posted by Dowding:
Are you serious? What the shreck are you on Miko2d? What romantic view of the world you have! Is that the your vision of utopia?

If I had to live in a society in which teachers carried M16s, I'd be soon blowing my head off with said automatic weapon.

 Dowding,
 I would not have reacted to this post as I did if it contained any argument to the subject under discussion besides a personal attack on my character.
 You did not have time to compose a reasonable responce, like the one you posted later, but you felt bad not having the last word? Quite understandable.
 Many people would post a message "Respectfully disagree, will elaborate later". You chose to imply that my statement was so idiotic as to only be explained by my being on drugs and not worthy of a reply.

Firstly you criticize me for being offensive, and then launch into some tirade about how much of a banana I am. I'm violent, deranged and sociopathic? An interesting example of "How wrong you can be".
 You find it illogical that after finding your post unprovokedly offencive I did not serenade you but replied in kind (except for the foul language)? So only you can offend other people whenever you feel like it. And they cannot reply because it hurts your feelings?
 I guess I should have made a reasearch on what your environment is like and the degree of offensiveness you ment to exude in your post lest I lose your respect...

FYI, 'shreck' is not considered offensive over here - it passes independant TV censors with no problem unlike the word 'diddly'. Easily confused, as be it may.
 That is what I am talking about. There is a whole world outside yours "over here". And many people would consider a deviation what you consider a norm.
 I will teach my children not to use that kind of language with grownups. Neither will I use it in a company of people who are not my close friends (some of them, who would not be offended).
 Many people do the same where I live and in other places.

 When I saw your post that you were not serious (I kind of hoped I would see such a post), I immediately started printing my appology but before I could punch it in, I you posted a counter-attack. Can you make up your mind? Offend? Appologise? Take offence? Lose respect? Continue discussion? Your style today is quite different from the usual Dowding. Is that you there posting?

 In case you do decide to come back to a rational discussion and for rational people out there:
 Israeli teachers are not armed to the teeth to "get through the day". They do not use those weapons because Israel is safer to the kids then USA or England. They are just ready to.
 Doesn't it make sense to safeguard the most precious thing we have with all available means? Teacher may be the only thing standing between a child and a danger. Whe know that it will happen - according to the statistics. We just hope it happens to someone else's kid. Is that a good approach?

 If you need a target for dispelief, how about metal-detectors and searches at the school entrances and children being suspended from school for drawing a gun, ban on sale of the box-cutters and utility knives?
 Doing this we (US citzens) openly recognize that our environment is full of dangerous people. So why not protect the children as much as we can?
 You would not let you child into the woods without an armed adult around, would you?

 By the way, many New York schools do have armed guards posted on every floor - and I am not talking about inner city schools.

 Another point is that Israel is one of the most gun-rich environments and they do not have a problem with school shootings.

 As for the police and soldiers (and other kinds of mercenaries - with all due respect) protecting us while all we do is pay their salaries - I would think that the right and even responcibility to protect oneself is more important then any other one (like freedom of speech) - they are all fiction without enforcement.

miko

[Tac]

Yes, all schoolchildren in the US wonder if the bus they are riding in will be blown by a bomb.

Or if their enemies will snatch them or plain murder them on their school trip.

One thing US folks dont seem to understand is what it is to live with the enemy in your midst. On the 3 months I was in Japan I had a classmate that was from Israel. She always said that many times she was just plain scared of taking a bus or walking outside her inmediate neighborhood.. out of fear of what might happen to her.

I could relate to that. Its the exact same way in my country. On my senior year, my class took a caravan of 3 buses and went to a river that was less than 10 kilometers from the school. We were to take the class picture there. It was on hill, on the outskirts of the city. On the way our buses were stopped by the rebels. You have no fricking clue of the near panic everyone was in. Our teachers babbling in english (not a smart thing to do) and the quiet on the bus was just horible. We were allowed to continue *just* because some of my classmates were the sons of Army generals, 2 were family of "alleged" drug lords and because (I believe) they couldnt take 3 busloads of hostages.

So yes, it is bad to have your teachers carry automatic weapons to defend their students. Its bad that the place they live in is like that. Israel is surrounded by enemies and has enemies within its borders. Frankly, im VERY suprised things are this peaceful.

Ive been in the US for 3 years now, and I STILL look behind my back twice a minute and I am very paranoid. Heck, I feel like very exposed living in a house with no bars in the windows... this lousy alarm system used here... what a joke.

Go live outside your borders for a while, your views will change dramatically.

[Boroda]

Miko, I was very surprised when I was stoped by a guardian ("somosovets" or "сомосовец" if you still read Russian and remember early-80s TV) with a 12-caliber shotgun at MY school door! In Moscow, in 1998! Damn, I came to visit my former teachers and the kids that I trained in the mountains 2 months ago! What the hell for?!

------------------
With respect,
    Pavel Pavlov,
    Commissar 25th IAP WB VVS

[This message has been edited by Boroda (edited 03-07-2001).]

[Dowding]

Miko2d,

1) I wasn't trying to be offensive, whereas you plainly were.

2) I don't know what happened with the "not serious" post. Sometimes I have two windows open and maybe that has something to do with posting two replies.

3) I Didn't see your 'apology' post until I'd posted my second, longer "not serious" reply.

4) I think your original reply was over the top; I could not make head or tail of what you were trying to say at the start of the thread and said so (perhaps a little too bluntly with hindsight). The "You are a deranged social deviant" angle just came across as a rant.

5) Hurt my feelings? Frankly, I couldn't care less what you choose to write here, but let me say one final thing on the subject:

There are far more offensive ways of addressing someone than swearing at them. They are just words in the end, which have lost alot of their true meaning - ideas have more impact.

Equating me to some psychopath who would hurt children is the most offensive thing I've ever been likened to. It borders on the absurd. Perhaps you'd like to call me a paedophile next?