Author Topic: HP or Torque  (Read 658 times)

Offline Monk

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HP or Torque
« on: May 09, 2005, 11:40:15 AM »
My wife just picked up a fun little car, a diesel.  130hp and 300 lbs ft or so of torque.  I was surprised how fun this car is to drive.  Midrange pull is outstanding.

So whats more fun HP or torque, or is it a happy middle.

Offline JB73

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HP or Torque
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2005, 12:04:39 PM »
it's all about where the torque is. high RPM or lower.

HP gives power, but torque puts you back in your seat
I don't know what to put here yet.

Offline Skydancer

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« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2005, 12:31:56 PM »
Torque and HP

What you want is a nice beefy but flat torque curve though its no not much use if that all happens without much HP.

A good example of all power no torque are the wizzy Jap sport bikes. Short stroke motors high HP but bugger all torque so you have to rev the t*ts off them to get em to go.

All Torque not much power is something like a standard twin pot Harley. Plenty of punch but runs out of breath as the revs rises.

( cue Jackal and Laz telling me they rode harley's with 300hp :lol )

A happy medium is a longer stroke big CC multi cylinder motor.

Longer stroke, heavier Flywheel, = Torque

Multi Cylinder = HP

=:D

I know this is bikes but similar to cars just the best examples I know to illustrate the point.

Offline bunch

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HP or Torque
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2005, 02:20:35 PM »
trim out the torque effects or your foot falls asleep

Offline Torque

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« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2005, 05:35:00 PM »
i'm bias on the matter.

Offline Skuzzy

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HP or Torque
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2005, 05:36:29 PM »
Just because you have an HP computer does not mean you have to withhold your opinion Torque.
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
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Offline JB73

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« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2005, 05:44:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Just because you have an HP computer does not mean you have to withhold your opinion Torque.
BWHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!11
I don't know what to put here yet.

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Horsepower = Torque X RPM / 5252
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2005, 07:06:49 PM »
Horsepower = Torque X RPM / 5252

What that means is that horsepower is merely a measurement of how fast you make torque. One cannot exist without the other.

The horsepower and torque curves will always intersect at 525 RPM.

The 5252 constant is why you do not see big HP numbers at low RPM. Unless of course you count big diesels. Most big diesels are rated at less than 3500 RPM. Figure out how much torque a Detroit Diesel 8V92TTA has to make to be rated at 650HP at 3200 RPM. It makes 550HP at 2500 RPM.

A dynamometer measures torque, horsepower is merely a calculated result thereof.
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Offline MrCoffee

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« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2005, 11:25:59 PM »
>Horsepower = Torque X RPM / 5252

agree with you there

>The horsepower and torque curves will
>always intersect at 525 RPM.

disagree with you there. its the product of (torque x rpm) / 5252 so hp and torque curves do not always intersect at a constant rpm range.

I think of peak torque as when the engine rate of power produced is greatest measured in mechanical work or ft lbs. HP is the value of total energy produced negative the power loss through heat/friction.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2005, 12:47:16 AM by MrCoffee »

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2005, 11:55:10 PM »
Do the math.

Since the constant in the formula is 5252, when RPM also equals 5252, torque and HP are equal, because HP is a calculation of torque times RPM dvided by the constant.

If the RPM is 5252 and the constant is 5252, what happens?

Put another way, if you divide a number by 5252, and then multiply it by 5252, what happens?

500 ftlbs of torque multiplied by 5252RPM equals 2626000.

2626000 divided by 5252(the constant) equals 500 horsepower.

So yes, if calculated correctly, torque and horsepower will always be equal at 5252 RPM because horsepower is a calculated derivative of torque and RPM in a formula with 5252 as a constant divisor of torque multiplied by RPM.

Spend 25 YEARS of your life with engines on a dyno, and you'll be asked about that and explain it often enough that you'll never forget it. If you test in that range, and print the results, 99 out of 100 customers will ask you: "Why is torque always equal to horsepower at that same RPM?" OR they will say: "That's weird, every engine you've ever dynoed for me always has the torque and horsepower equal (or the torque and horsepower lines on the graph always merge) at 5252 RPM."


Now, neither peak torque/RPM nor peak horsepower/RPM can be stated as always being the point of peak efficiency. There are too many other factors involved. There's the point of highest volumetric efficiency, there's the point of best BSFC (brake specific fuel consumption, or the point where the engine consumes the least amount of fuel per unit of power developed) or a couple of others I won't go into here due to time constraints. There's thermal efficency and friction loss as well.

Theoretically, the peak horspower RPM would be where the engine is most efficient, since it is producing the greatest amount of power in the least amount of time.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2005, 12:07:25 AM by Captain Virgil Hilts »
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Offline Heretik

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for the more visual learners.
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2005, 12:22:56 AM »
Torque


Horsepower
 

Offline MrCoffee

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« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2005, 01:00:23 AM »
I dont think the constant 5252 is the rpm. I believe its derived from some formula relating to conversion of a force of torque to circular movement.

Offline MrCoffee

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« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2005, 01:05:46 AM »
an engines torque is mechanical force in circular motion. Hp is a value of energy and can be converted to something like a btu or kilowatt. So the constant 5252 is so that you can convert mechanical force to a value of power. Thats all it is.

Offline MrCoffee

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« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2005, 01:15:53 AM »
Quote
Since the constant in the formula is 5252, when RPM also equals 5252, torque and HP are equal, because HP is a calculation of torque times RPM dvided by the constant.

If the RPM is 5252 and the constant is 5252, what happens?


(torque x rpm) / 5252

I agree, at 1rpm thats true.

gotcha. ;)

Offline MrCoffee

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« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2005, 01:21:42 AM »