Author Topic: So what's the tally from frame 1?  (Read 588 times)

VWE

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So what's the tally from frame 1?
« on: May 31, 2005, 09:03:46 AM »
Who did I shoot down, who did I wound and who did I annoy! :D

Offline daddog

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So what's the tally from frame 1?
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2005, 09:19:07 AM »
LOL
Ghosthdancer. He should have posted by now. I will bug him about it.
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Offline SCDR

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So what's the tally from frame 1?
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2005, 08:16:45 AM »
Here it is, Wed 1 Jun, 05 and still NO RESULTS for Frame 1?!?:confused:
What's up with that?

SCDR

Offline ghostdancer

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So what's the tally from frame 1?
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2005, 01:53:25 PM »
Sorry .. what is up with that is I have been dealing with some things behind the scenes which have a direct impact on the scoring.

There was a rules infraction on the Axis side that happened that I had to verify and then discuss with the other CMs. I have finished the discussion on that and made a rule.

Now I just have to settle on a point penalty to the Axis side.
X.O. 29th TFT, "We Move Mountains"
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Offline SCDR

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So what's the tally from frame 1?
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2005, 02:20:16 PM »
Oh ho! What was it? Huh? Huh? I err We want to know.:D
NP Ghostdancer, just would like to know how it went.

Hey! Is there any way we can court martial a squad for not
following orders?:D

SCDR

Offline ghostdancer

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So what's the tally from frame 1?
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2005, 03:23:29 PM »
The JAAF had won a decisive victory. After the penalty ... well they didn't.

As for the infraction .. a person came into the arena and said they were looking to fly for a squad, allied preferrably .. a pure walk on. The rules state (and I have elaborated why in another thread) why we don't allow walk ons and that people have to contact a squad previous to the event to arrange for a slot. Not just come in and say who wants me to all the squads.

He was told by the setup CM and several other COs and XOs that walk ons are not allowed.

However, he then still got signed and flew for a squad.

I have talked to most of the parties involved.

But I am going to render a point penalty over it.
X.O. 29th TFT, "We Move Mountains"
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VWE

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So what's the tally from frame 1?
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2005, 10:31:08 PM »
Seems a little unfair to penalize a whole group effort for 1 squads actions.  Take it up with that squad...

Offline ghostdancer

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So what's the tally from frame 1?
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2005, 06:57:32 AM »
I will write on this later today after I get to work (running late). As for penalizing the whole group .. yes and no.

First of all I did not take away the victory from the JAAF side. It was reduced .. just points were reduced. Its still a victory and the JAAF side know they did extremely well.

As to why penalize a whole side instead of a squad. Because this is not just a squad issue. As SCDR and others said others sort of having been doing this too. I will later define what I find acceptable and not and the reasoning behind the no walk on rule.

But the penalization basically tells everyone, all squads that there are consequences for rule infractions.

In the same vein we just used to penalize or chat with the squad that up over their max numbers. That was stop the problem for that squad. However, then another squad would do it and so forth.

So we changed things to if you go over your max numbers your side gets a penalty. That not only informs that squad of the consequence but also reminds the other squads of the consequence .. which hopefully reminds them to not go over their max numbers too.

In this case it is telling everyone that their is a consequence of taking in a walk on when the CM had told that walk on .. no I am sorry this is a no walk on event. So again hopefully we reinforce this message to all squads to think and restrain themselves which would not be the case if I just dealt privately with that one squad and individuals involved.

Plus, the point penalty is a rather mild smack on the wrist which is intended to remind everyone of consequences and hopefully encourage them to think about their actions. Because as pointed out this thread and another this is not an isolated event (just one that I caught) and people were starting to think that taking on a person was acceptable under all circumstances.

As I said I will define and post was is and is not acceptable and further reasoning behind things.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2005, 07:30:26 AM by ghostdancer »
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VWE

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So what's the tally from frame 1?
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2005, 08:48:35 AM »
Then I say you should look at everyone that participated last frame and then compare those people with squad rosters.

We joined because this is a squad only event. No one other than who is in our squad will ever participate with us.

If squads are bending the rules then those squads should be delt with. Penalizing my squad and our efforts doesn't get your point accross like your intending it too.

Offline ghostdancer

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So what's the tally from frame 1?
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2005, 09:11:40 AM »
VWE the FSO is setup and has been from in its inception (when it was called TOD 4+ years ago) as a decentralized event. By this I mean that the COs and XOs or squads play a very major part in allowing the event to run on such a short turn around (3 weeks on and 1 week off), in fostering numbers (200+) and enabling those people to come in and pull off a major structured event in about 30 minutes.

Most of the people in FSO show up only 30 to 15 minutes before the event. Yet, things still run very smoothly for the most part even with complicate objectives, plans, etc.

The key to this is that is based on a squad and the squad leadership. There are only 2 CMs per event. The squad leadership of each squad briefs their people, gets them to turn out, works at enforcing the rules, etc., etc.

And the CMs and other squads rely on the trust that squads will do what is right. Sometimes they stray without realizing it, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they don't realize the inherent danger of their actions (accepting a walk on that they don't know).

In past events I have seen a walk on (found out later) be accepted and then blow friendly bombers out of the sky. We allowed the bombers to reup .. but wrecked the timing of an attack plan. In another, newbies reupped when they only had 1 life .. but reupped when Vals got their second life (saying hey if the fields were open must be alright to reup). They then went on to sink enemy ships .. which caused havoc to the participants and event afterwards. The squad that took them didn't think they would do this .. and they misunderstood .. but they weren't properly brief (hard to brief a lot of new people about things rules, plan, what you can and can not do in 30 minutes, 15 minutes, or less).

As for who is supposed to be in a squad or not. The FSO squads who no correlation at all to the MA squads. I personally send out email every week several times to my squadies and people of other squad that I know and who expressed interest in FSO for the event. I send out to probably 40+ people in the =GHOSTS=, NightHawks, CAF, AirMAgeddon, and then my squad and indepedents. These people are briefed and they understand that once we get 23 slots filled .. no flying for the rest. First come first serve. Sometimes I get 16 sometimes 22.

So going an analyzing the logs for all the squads won't indicate to me who should be there and who should not. Currently we go on the honor system. The COs and XOs are supposed to do the right thing. Sometimes they don't by oversight, misunderstanding, etc.

I am sorry you don't think it servers a purpose but I disagree it does serve a purpose to remind everyone of their obligations. And to show people that their are consequences to actions (even if they were not done with malice).

I have had to delist squads before for not following things. For example we insist on squads providing two contacts so that we can try to make sure they get orders and objects. Several squads in the past still only went with one .. and then didn't show up or get orders out for a frame. They were warned and at times (case by case basis) delisted from the event.

As for penalizing your squad .. the JAAF still gets victory for the frame. All you guys get is me not telling you it was a decisive victory .. that it was 1300+ points instead of 1700+ points.

Basically its a public mild rebuke over the event. Why did the JAAF get it .. because you are a team. Part of your team even if not your squad did wrong. So the team gets a mild rebuke. The offending squad knows what they did and I am sure now won't do it again because their other team mates to get a mild rebuke, other squads will think twice about things, etc.

You disagree with my logic that is fine. But after discussing and thinking on things it is up to me to make the call. My call is a private discussion and warning to the squad and people involved and a mild public rebuke (reinforcing this) and bring up the issue to other squads and making them think about their responsibilities without taking the victory away from one side.
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Offline ghostdancer

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So what's the tally from frame 1?
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2005, 04:05:57 PM »
Read this thread for further explanation of things.

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=152171
X.O. 29th TFT, "We Move Mountains"
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