Author Topic: Nash  (Read 1052 times)

Offline Toad

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Nash
« on: June 04, 2005, 01:58:13 AM »
So when did you start?

I'd have to mark my beginning at reading the Bible cover to cover at age 14. Had to; went to a Jesuit High School and the Old Testament was assigned over Christmas vacation and the New over Easter vacation. Tested, of course.

I'd have to mark that as my true beginning.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline JB88

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« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2005, 02:02:19 AM »
einstien flunked math.
this thread is doomed.
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To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

word.

Offline Nash

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« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2005, 02:17:36 AM »
About a year ago.

When I didn't have a choice.

And when I realized that everything I ever did wrong was the result of a void that I sensed was there, but couldn't even name. Didn't truly know existed.

I didn't so much as admit defeat as ask "wtf exactly is going on here!"

It was a big problem.

I bought about $200 worth of books. It's what I tend to do when faced with a problem. They helped.

But I still sensed that void. And I knew that if I couldn't resolve it, I'd be doomed to constantly repeat the error of trying to fill it in whatever the hell made sense to me at the time. Not smart.

So there was a void. A hole. A vaccum.

I'd lived a fairly rounded life. Bases were covered, I thought. But they were not.

I don't like to go into detail about what filled that void. Because, well, different strokes for different folks. What worked for me may not work for someone else. Hell, my spirital path may piss someone off. Seems likely, anyways. These days.

But ya know....  I've come across a lot of great stuff. I'd call my spiritual belief an amalgamation of many things. I'd have no idea what to name it. That does not matter to me. If there were a heaven, the gatekeeper would not ask me skill testing questions.

In fact I am certain that there is no heaven. Just like there is no hell. Just like there is no life and there is no death.

The best thing about all this? You never stop learning. See how I said "certain?" You never actually really know. That's where faith comes in. It's a healthy thing to have.

I'm often wrong. I'm never uncertain.

But you never really know. I distrust those that think they do.

That being said, and on balance... it's a damned good road to take. Couldn't imagine life without it now.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2005, 03:04:14 AM by Nash »

Offline Toad

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« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2005, 08:52:37 AM »
Sorry I didn't answer sooner; had to get some bag time.

While my road appears to have been a bit longer, it wasn't necessarily faster. I suspect we are not that far apart in our belief system.

While I understand your reticence, especially here, ah......... let's see......... did you find one or two books more helpful than the others?

I'll put it that way.   ;)
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline oboe

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« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2005, 09:13:01 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
...I'm often wrong. I'm never uncertain.


Sorry to barge in, but what you've written here is a little scary.   I thought you thought a little self-doubt was a good thing?

Offline Nash

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« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2005, 01:57:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by oboe
I thought you thought a little self-doubt was a good thing?


It is. I am far from perfect. :) Plus what I said is contradictory. It almost emphasises self-doubt while seeming to say the opposite. Definitely open to interpretation.

Toad, I like the Dyer stuff you're reading. 'The Great Divorce' by C.S. Lewis is an interesting little book. 'Awakening the Buddha Within' by Lama Surya Das is about my favorite on the subject. 'Tao te Ching' by Jonathan Star is great. There are tons more, but these are the ones that immediately came to mind.

Like you pointed out, there is a lot of commonality between the various religions. That gives me comfort, not consternation. To me it represents the confirmation of an esential truth, not a reason to compare and doubt.

Of them all, eastern philosophy (Buddhism, Tao, Zen) ring the truest to me, and gives me the most peace. Dryer's stuff is essentially Buddhism, spoken in a different way. I suppose that if you took any Western religion and stripped off all of the fat, it would look much like Buddhism. So why all the fat? No thanks. But... it's all good. There's no end to be reached. All a worthwhile journey.

Offline Drunky

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« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2005, 03:08:30 PM »
I'm also sorrty to but into your conversation but you mentioned something of interest to me.  Eastern philosophy.

It might surprise people but I also read a lot of Eastern philosophy (nice term 'philosophy', isn't it) books.

Among my favorites are Zen and the Art of Motorcylce Maintenance by Robert M. Pirsig.

I'm finishing up The Tao of Pooh by Benjamin Hoff.  It's relatively small but puts a lot of Tao beliefs into tangible examples using the stories of Winnie the Pooh.  Surprisingly, this is the best book I've read about Taoism.

I also got The Te of Piglet by the same author at the same time but haven't even cracked the book open yet, but I expect it to be pretty good also.


Some of my other favorites which are not 'spiritual' (as I gathered this thread was about) but still are philosophical include The Book of the Five Rings by Miyamoto Musashi and The Art of War by Sun Tzu.


But by far The Tao of Pooh has been the most rewarding book I've read so far.  Maybe it is because I've already read other books, I don't know but this one seemed to put things in such context that seemed not only functional but also applicable.
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Offline oboe

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« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2005, 05:08:54 PM »
LOL Drunky those books are all in our house somewhere.

Pirsig really captivated me - one of those rare books I stayed up almost all night reading.  It led to my first motorcycle purchase years ago, and some motorcycle camping trips.    They were just as great as I imagined when reading about them in his book.

I never really got into the Phaedras wolf stuff, or that his son was going insane - but the stuff about Quality and the descriptions about motorcycling make it an all time great read for me.

I'll have to find and crack open the Tao of Pooh.

Nash - I don't find what you said contradictory.   There are too many 'certain' people in the world who are very often proved wrong about things.   They don't seem to learn from it or be chastened by it, either.    Drives me nuts, because I'd feel like crawling under a rock if I was publicly proven wrong about something I said I was 'certain' about.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2005, 05:13:30 PM by oboe »

Offline FUNKED1

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« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2005, 05:23:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
had to get some bag time

I didn't realize colostomy was part of your treatment.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2005, 05:32:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash

Like you pointed out, there is a lot of commonality between the various religions. That gives me comfort, not consternation. To me it represents the confirmation of an esential truth, not a reason to compare and doubt.
[/b]

Exactly. Couldn't agree more.

Quote
So why all the fat? No thanks. But... it's all good. There's no end to be reached. All a worthwhile journey.


Perhaps because in my Father's house, there are many mansions?

Perhaps there HAS to be different "flavors" of the same essential truth in order for it to reach minds that have been raised in different environments/social systems?

As you pointed out, they all reach towards essentially the same thing. Is the exact method of "reach" the key? Probably not. IMO, anyway.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Toad

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Nash
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2005, 05:33:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FUNKED1
I didn't realize colostomy was part of your treatment.


That's not my bag, man. Well......... yet.   ;)
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Drunky

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« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2005, 07:20:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by oboe
I never really got into the Phaedras wolf stuff, or that his son was going insane - but the stuff about Quality and the descriptions about motorcycling make it an all time great read for me.


This is what I got out of the book.  You're mind, or mental well-being as it were, needs to be maintained just as you would your body.

If you're arm hurts for three days, you begin to wonder why does it hurt.  Same goes for your mind, or mental well-being.

Hence the analogy to motorcycle maintenance.  Which is personified by his care of his motorcycle and contrasted by his friends' care of their motorcycle.  They don't listen for things.  They don't check to see if something is going wrong.  They ride until it breaks even if it becomes apparent that something is wrong.

That could be said what happened to Phaedras.  He broke.

While this book is about Zen it also parallels Taoism in a way.  Discard things and live a Natural life.  Not only achieve Nothing but also become Nothing.
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Offline Nash

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« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2005, 07:23:01 PM »
Drunky, 'The Tao of Pooh' is excellent.

oboe, how can admitting errors and in the same breath be proclaiming absolute certainty about anything not be contradictory? I know what you're saying though, that it's those who proclaim certainty and never admit their errors that is the true frustration. But certainty is a good thing to have up front. Bolstering it are the lessons learned from past mistakes and the ability to admit future ones. Certainty itself, in life, is often required. It's how we handle the results of it that is telling.

Toad, I must admit not knowing the "father's house/mansions" analogy.

"Perhaps there HAS to be different "flavors" of the same essential truth in order for it to reach minds that have been raised in different environments/social systems?" - Toad

Erhm, it's not that I can disagree with your take on it. Because, for sure, there is that angle. Breaking it down into a simple language barrier makes your point correct. It's more like I see it as a defense of every religious excess in the name of necessary marketing. Or something like that.

I'll just tell you straight up that I think that (and I am talking about my personal evaluation which is no stranger to course adjustments) Western religion has lost the plot. Somewhere along the way. Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years ago, to be vaguely precise.

I do find value in it, because as we agree there is an essential core at the root of all of it. But you're creating an "ends justify the means" argument, and to discount the means is to discount the ends. Because they are the same thing.

I'm reticent to go further, as I really do have strong opinions about the subversion of spirituality by certain establishments that take perhaps the highest and most noble callings of mankind and uses them instead for the lowest, most base and antithetical pursuits.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2005, 09:40:42 PM by Nash »

Offline oboe

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« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2005, 07:57:00 PM »
"vaguely precise"   lol, what a great phrase!

Do continue, Nash.   It sounds to me like your just getting to the good part...

Offline Drunky

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« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2005, 10:33:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
Toad, I must admit not knowing the "father's house/mansions" analogy


This is straight out of the one of those religious books (trying to be vague) and I think what he is saying is that despite how you might view things you will find your 'heaven', whatever that might be.

This should go along with what I have seen you comment on how all things tie together.  It's not being restrictive, rather the opposite, it's saying however you believe, there is a place for you.

That is my take.  Take it for what you will.
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