Fairness

[easymo]

 I am not a Republican. Nor a Democrat. So I feel, to some extent, I can see both arguments, in the election, fairly. I see the nation struggling to find a fair way to judge the situation. The one argument that I have never been able to answer reasonably. Was made by the Bush people. A machine has no political affiliation. A machine is the only entity I would trust to have no prejudice. Arguments that we should  single out a handful of machines, out of the thousands across the country, make no sense.
 If there was a malfunction (doubtful). Then the malfunction was also equal. A lot of very good arguments where made by the gore lawyers, once you allow yourself to be pulled into the legal minutia beyond the auto machine recount. But why do this, when you have a judgement already made, by the only impartial resource that is available.

 The talking heads say that we are all being patient about this. I'm not. My overriding  concern, is that the many generations following us will have to live with the mess that is being made by this one. Will we leave them with an impression that we attempted to reach a fair an impartial choice. Or will we leave them with the idea that all elections are subject to whatever interpretation you can come up with to win.

 The U.S. Supreme Courts nondecision is about the last straw for me. It seems obvious to me, that the U.S. has lost its way. And justice is now available only, to  the guy who can grab the best mouthpiece.

[Ripsnort]

"It seems obvious to me, that the U.S. has lost its way.  And justice is now available only, to the guy who can grab the best mouthpiece."

See precedent set in O.J. Simpson case.

[easymo]

 That had crossed my mind, rip

 The irony for me lyes in the fact that had the election been left up to me. Gore would have been President elect. I didn't care much for either one of these guys. (I was a McCain guy). But, I would have given a slight edge to gore, based on experience. Now, as I have posted before, I will never vote for another democrat. That does not mean I will vote for a Republican I don't like. I simply will not vote if this occurs

[Ripsnort]

Better yet, vote the issues.  That way you don't fall into the "Party Line" trap.

[easymo]

 Not to be argumentative. But how many times have you seen a politician, who was elected on an issue, turn his back on that issue the minute he was in office. I have seen it over and overthrough the years. I try to pick the guy, or gal, who is most likely to not be roadkilling me.

 As you go up the political food chain this becomes harder and harder to do. When you reach the top (president) its damn near impossible. But it is all we have to work with.

[Toad]

Hey, we're not the first US Citizens that have had to deal with truly worthless politicians.  

Our history is full of political scandal (like most other countries, I might add). Machine politics, bribes, murder... whatever you can think of has probably happened.

Is there anything new under the sun?

We simply have to collectively get off our dead a**es and take an interest in what's going on. The pols will push to the limits they think the populace will accept.

As an example, clearly I'm not a Clinton fan. While he has many apologists and a teflon coating that even Reagan would envy, his little perjury episode probably convinced many pols that the limits are even farther out than they ever suspected.

Guess we'll just have to work harder on convincing them we're watching and acting.

I solemnly pledge that I will protest just as vociferously when a President of ANY party perjures himself and looks into the national cameras and lies to us about it.  

It's up to us folks. There's no superhero coming to save this situation. "We the people" is a whole bunch of individuals that have to choose to act instead of sit idly by.

Just my .02.

[Kieren]

That pretty much sums up my outrage at Clinton, Toad.

[StSanta]

You get yer pantsies in a bunch because a man lies about being unfaithful?

Hell, if I ever did it (and I won't), I'd lie my bellybutton off.

Now, if someone was grossly negligent or misused his powers, I can understand resentment. But lying about having an affair, to yer wife or to an entire nation, is to be expected.

He was acquitted too, no? All that thing did was expose some of the aspects of his personal life he'd preferred would remain just that.

So he lied. Just like all other presidents have, broken their promises made during an election or whatnot. Which incidentally I think is far worse for a president than lying about his private life.

It's like hiring a top lawyer - if he lies about screwing your pals friend, it doesn't make him a sucky lawyer. If he lies about how he's gonna represent you, it'd make him a poor one.

Who said something about no more taxes? You guys despise that lying motherfuquler too?  

<flame suit on>



------------------
StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
while(!bishRookQueue.isEmpty() && loggedOn()){
30mmDeathDIEDIEDIE(bishRookQueue.removeFront());
System.out.println("LW pilots are superior");
myPlane.performVictoryRoll();
}

[Toad]

No, Santa, it's about perjury.

He could have said, to the Congress and the Nation, "None of your business". I could respect that and even say "You Go, Bill!".

Lying under oath is another thing altogether whether a man is President or Pauper.

I don't care if he does it with a German Shepherd (No Monica jokes now).

However, if asked under oath he'd have two choices:

Refuse to answer or tell the truth. I have no problem with either one of those.


[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 12-05-2000).]

[Kieren]

What's more, the President is the Chief Executive of the U.S.- that means it is his responsibility to see that laws are carried out.

Do you consider Clinton to be intelligent? If so, you must also be aware that he is a lawyer. Put those two thoughts together and you have a man that very well understood the full import of the lies he told. He told that lie to circumvent the due process of a private citizen that, in light of the events that followed this deposition, probably deserved to have her case tried. His dogs dragged Paula Jones through the mud, and would surely have done so to Monica Lewinski had there not been a stained dress. You should also be aware of all the good people around him that fell on their swords, then found out he stood by and watched it happen, all the while knowing he was guilty. And did you ever see the tape of him parsing the word "is"? It was the most ridiculous spectacle of lying I have personally witnessed.

Now his defenders will say it was a $50 million case about sex. I say no, it was a $50 million case about a man who didn't have the character to spare himself, his subordinates, and the nation the terrible spectacle by doing one, simple thing:

Tell the truth.

[jihad]

 After reading the above I get the impression most of you have never been in a lengthy court battle. (I had a 4 year divorce/custody battle)

 Lying under oath is an *every* day occurence in the judicial system,you can be caught lying and absolutely nothing will be said or done about it,unless the judge has a hard on for you its no different than swapping fishing tales with your buddys.

 Contrary to popular belief-our judicial system has no interest in *justice*,it`s sole purpose is to fill your local government and attorneys pockets with your hard earned money.

 It`s a damn shame to see whats happened to this countrys morals and integrity in the last 40 years,we`re heading into the toejamter fast.  

[Maverick]

Kieren,

Well said. I just love the accusation that this whole debacle was the result of the republicans. That kind of rhetoric simply denies that there was a second side to the spectacle. If clintoon had simply said yep I boffed her and I'm sorry. I'll never do it again, then no big deal. Hell, most would have simply shrugged their shoulders and moved on. As it is now clintoon is synonymous with lying. Some legacy.

Mav

[Naso]

Gents, sometime you are so naive...

How can you really believe a man so high up in the power ranks?

Clinton, Gore, Bush jr, Bush, Reagan, all of them are basically liers.

They swear to help you, but they cover the interests of the lobbies pushing them, of the BIG powers, not yours.

A whole nation was focused about some BJ done to a silly man, while the entire political class, the same man, the government, keep stealing money and reduce your freedom.

NEVER believe political men, NEVER believe the government.

Is amaizing...

This once smoked some marijuana...
The other hide during Vietnam...
The other one had sex, "but was'nt sex"...

LOL

Little thinks, look what they do, witch power they have in the shadow behind theyr shoulders, this is the real danger.

Welcome in the real politics.  

They are a bunch of SOBs, dont trust them.

NEVER!

[Kieren]

No, don't trust them; hold them accountable.

Pick the one you think will be best, then watch everything he/she does. At the end of his/her term grade them with your vote.

[Apache]

 

Lying under oath is an *every* day occurence in the judicial system,you can be caught lying and absolutely nothing will be said or done about it,unless the judge has a hard on for you its no different than swapping fishing tales with your buddys.

BS. I prosecuted many for perjury, lying under oath. 1 time in court does not give you the proper perspective. Try spending 15 years in court and then tell me what ya see.