The Complete Aces High2 Fighter Turn Performance

[hitech]

Gs are not linear but vary with square of speed.

HiTech

[Lye-El]

Originally posted by Kweassa

 
 Does AH have ground effect over water? All planes were tested over the water.

 
 Let's hope HT can answer this one.

I think it should  have the same effect close to water as it does to ground. The principal is the same.  I haven't really noticed as I don't try to land on the water much.

[Soda]

Originally posted by hitech
Gs are not linear but vary with square of speed.

HiTech

Hmmm... I think I had it right, I knew it would be the square of speed based on the forumla.  Given Kweassas time and speed numbers, I calculated everything else out and got a sustained value of 122 mph 25.71deg/sec @ 2.5G.  Sounds reasonable enough.  For the best instantaneous I calculated 188mph, 42 deg/sec and 6G.  That made one big assumption though, that radius did not change, you simply applied more speed until you hit 6G.  Now, based on the EM diagrams I've seen, radius should decrease slightly (25-75ft) above the sustained radius, correct? Is there a way to calculate that component of variation out?

I have the whole thing in a spreadsheet, will try and clean it up a bit and see how it looks.

[Big G]

Is there not some sort of software that could do this with the variables ?
I wonder if there is anyone with contacts at the guys like Lockheed and Boeing etc ?

[Charge]

What is the max AoA of the 109 wing (F,G variants)?

Slats deployed.

PS. anybody know what is the comparable NACA profile to be used in calculations?

"A Me 109F/G/K had redesigned wings; they had rounded tips and a changed
profile:Roots NACA 2R1 14.2 Tips NACA 2R1 11.35"

What the heck is 2R1? NACA 23012 or similar is understandable, but 2R1?



-C+

[hitech]

Soda: That is do to the force required to over come gravity.

Don't have the math on top of my head on this calc. but basicly you need to calc the resultant force vec pointing inside the circle (i.e turn radius) and the force up force vec overcoming gravity.


The sum of these 2 vectors has to = your total lift vector whch is at an angle.


HiTech

[Gryffin]

I just found this thread. Kweassa, absolutely brilliant work, this has to be one of the most useful things I have seen on this board.

[Charge]

Anybody?

-C+

[Soda]

Originally posted by Charge
Soda: That is do to the force required to over come gravity.

Don't have the math on top of my head on this calc. but basicly you need to calc the resultant force vec pointing inside the circle (i.e turn radius) and the force up force vec overcoming gravity.

The sum of these 2 vectors has to = your total lift vector whch is at an angle.

HiTech

Wow, I think I got it.  There were actually a couple of steps, I had to calculate the bank angles for a flat turn at various G values.  Then using that I could calculate what the "useful" G component to apply to the radial force vs. what is essentially wasted in lift.  Once that is graphed I get what appears to be the correct curvature and I overlayed radius lines on it and it's a thing of beauty.

Thanks,

[Spongebob]

Wow, I think I got it. There were actually a couple of steps, I had to calculate the bank angles for a flat turn at various G values. Then using that I could calculate what the "useful" G component to apply to the radial force vs. what is essentially wasted in lift. Once that is graphed I get what appears to be the correct curvature and I overlayed radius lines on it and it's a thing of beauty.

Yes indeed, if we are doing a real flat turn, that is with our wings perpendicular to the force of gravity and nose to tail parallel, then we are also falling out of the sky at an accellerating rate up until terminal velocity I suppose. So the question is in a true flat turn as decribed above, where we know all the planes will actually turn tighter since they aren't wasting lift on fighting gravity, are the circles and times for each plane going to be comparatively similar and just an equal percentage smaller. In other words, the spit out-turns the jug in time around the circle by (arbitrary figure here) 30% in a level turn but in a true descending flat turn does that percentage change?

I'm guessing it doesn't. The times will obviously change, but the difference measured in percentage shouldn't

Magoo

[Murdr]

In comparison, the test results for the P-38s are quite intriguing. Many AH pilots consider the P-38s as one of the best turning planes in the set. Some even go as far as to claiming that P-38s will out-turn Spitfires and N1K2s. However, actual tests say otherwise.

Not at all.  At thos parameters, that would be the result I would expect.  75% fuel in a P-38 is a lot of weight, and is proportionately much more weight compaired with other fighters.  Sustained flat turns fights are not a good idea with more than 50% internal fuel.  Somewhere between 25%-35% is prefered when commiting to a turn fight in the MA enviroment.

Gross internal fuel weight at capacity:
C.205 - 684lbs
N1K2 - 1140lbs
F6f5 - 1500lbs
P51 - 1614lbs
P38G - 1836lbs
P47D - 2250lbs
P38L - 2460lbs

Interesting data Kweassa, looks very thorough.

[thrila]

I do like the results of the mossie.   I've said it has a small radius, it just lacks the acceleration and bleeds E too readily to get into a sustained turn fight.

[Scherf]

Bah.

The way you shoot, thrila, it's not surprising you never get into sustained turn fights.

"Hmmm, con kind of over that way, think I'll fire over here and ... yeah, there ya go."

[Apar]

So in actual combat, it is more than likely to expect that the P-47 would easily reach its tightest turn radius and stay their - while the 109 would struggle to maintain such status. In many cases, keeping a turn tight and slow enough to maintain 1 notch of flaps, is itself a grossly difficult task - while a P-47 would easily pull down one, two, or even full flaps and literally run circles around 109s

I finally realize how good I am  

[MOSQ]

Kweassa,


Any chance of updating with the new spits? I see badboy has posted new spit charts in the Help forum, maybe you could use the data off his charts.