Author Topic: Rental Car? Read the fine print! (Read 3057 times)

miko2d · « **Reply #45 on:** June 22, 2001, 02:10:00 PM »

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Originally posted by bloom25:
There is no way that a company can fine you based on GPS evidence. (I'm an electrical engineer, I do know what I'm talking about here. ) I wonder if they (rental companies) realize that the Department of Defense adds a random error to the GPS used by the general public.

That practice was discontinued for quite a while. GPS now is accurate to single digits in horisontal plane.
Besides, you do not know over which distance they average your speed. If it's 20 miles, then what do a few feet matter.

GPS accuracy is also effected by the number of satelites the receiver is tracking at the time. (3 needed for postion, 4 needed for altitude and postition.) Accuracy generally improves as the number of satelites being tracked increases.
Cheap handheld GPS unist now are all 12-channel. Enough for you, Mr. Electrical Engineer?

As for wear on the car, that is is double sided sword.
Why does it have to be only about wear? Most likely they were able to negotiate a much better insurance rates because of that equipment.

today's cars are geared to run most efficiently around 65 - 70 MPH. (My car does not even shift into overdrive until you get to 50 MPH. ) This means that wear on the engine is less at 65 Mph than at 55.
Of course not. The fuel efficiency may be less because the fuel burns more or less quickly then optimal. But you can be sure that air resistance increase proportional to the square of the speed amply comensates for any increase of fuel burning efficiensy.
That is no concern of the company anyway - you buy fuel out your own pocket.
The engine wear is determined by forces on the engine which inclrease with speed.

If I were in this rental car, I know what I would do - I'd put aluminum foil over the GPS receiver's antenna.
Would probably violate the contract and cost you $1500

miko

[ 06-22-2001: Message edited by: miko2d ]

miko2d · « **Reply #46 on:** June 22, 2001, 02:13:00 PM »

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Originally posted by Montezuma:
where they would have to prove their GPS thing is 100% correct without the benefit of an expert witness.

Could not be simpler. Just bring the car and check it position as reported by the system. Them move it 200 feet and check the reported position again. Since government removed the random error, GPS is accurate to within a few feet.

miko

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #47 on:** June 22, 2001, 02:19:00 PM »

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Could not be simpler. Just bring the car and check it position as reported by the system. Them move it 200 feet and check the reported position again. Since government removed the random error, GPS is accurate to within a few feet.

Actually, its not even remotely that easy. LASER speed detection systems have been met with some concern due to inacuracy under certain conditions. It is one of the more precise detection methods most of the time, but has trouble dealing with certain angles, colors and textures in a very small percentage of instances.

Basically.. showing it works on one car in one situation does not prove its accurate.

But then.. that's only for the speed side of things. I do believe its accurate enough to know if you are parked in the Hooter's parking lot on a buisness trip.

AKDejaVu

Nifty · « **Reply #48 on:** June 22, 2001, 03:25:00 PM »

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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:

But then.. that's only for the speed side of things. I do believe its accurate enough to know if you are parked in the Hooter's parking lot on a buisness trip.

AKDejaVu

That's why you park in the Burger King parking lot next to the Hooter's!

Nifty · « **Reply #49 on:** June 22, 2001, 03:28:00 PM »

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Originally posted by ispar:

Oh, and by the way... MA drivers are about the 3rd worst in the country, I heard. Probably because of Boston driving . (Those that don't know about Boston driving, roads, and traffic - believe me, you don't want to know).

I agree with that!! I live in a nice little Florida town. I drove over to Louisiana, and then my friend and I flew to Boston for a little vacation. We get the rental car, and then I'm thrown out of Logan into construction, MA drivers, and MA roads! Huge driving culture shock there! Hehe, it was funny though, I just complained a few times, and I didn't have to drive anymore until we left!

Sandman · « **Reply #50 on:** June 22, 2001, 03:39:00 PM »

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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:

Actually, its not even remotely that easy. LASER speed detection systems have been met with some concern due to inacuracy under certain conditions. It is one of the more precise detection methods most of the time, but has trouble dealing with certain angles, colors and textures in a very small percentage of instances.

Basically.. showing it works on one car in one situation does not prove its accurate.

But then.. that's only for the speed side of things. I do believe its accurate enough to know if you are parked in the Hooter's parking lot on a buisness trip.

AKDejaVu

The problem with laser is that it relies on the operator for accuracy. It measures distance and then computes speed based upon the change in distance over time. IMHO, doppler radar is far more reliable and accurate and doesn't require any proficiency from the operator.

As for GPS... it's quite accurate at determining speed. Put one in your car, you'll see. Sure, it may not be a good measure of speed taken in small samples but over a period of a few minutes, I think it can be relied upon. GPS updates every second. The accuracy is there. We use it as a TSPI source and measure radar track accuracy against it.

miko2d · « **Reply #51 on:** June 22, 2001, 04:49:00 PM »

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Originally posted by Nifty:
I agree with that!! I live in a nice little Florida town.

Those floridians (sp?)... The cars on the highway would actually slow down or even stop to let you in from the parking lot - those bastards!!!
Spend a week driving in Florida, get used to that kind of treatment, lose your edge and you can easily get get killed once you get back to New York.

miko

Gargoyle · « **Reply #52 on:** June 22, 2001, 05:19:00 PM »

Has anyone here used a GPS?

You get spotty broken communication all the time. Drive along, the little dot stays in one place while you lose the signal (through a tunnel say). Then when you regain the signal the little dot leaps ahead to catch up with you. Hey look at that, you've just traveled 10 blocks in .02 seconds. Peak speed 3,450 mph. Imagine the fine they'll give you for that!!!!

How can they possibly screen out a speed spike glitch from your true speed? It is exactly like being on a bad 5000ms connection to Aces High when the software is trying predict position. Instantaneous warping all over the place, we've all seen it. The same thing happens to GPS tracking.

ispar · « **Reply #53 on:** June 22, 2001, 10:15:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nifty:

I agree with that!! I live in a nice little Florida town. I drove over to Louisiana, and then my friend and I flew to Boston for a little vacation. We get the rental car, and then I'm thrown out of Logan into construction, MA drivers, and MA roads! Huge driving culture shock there! Hehe, it was funny though, I just complained a few times, and I didn't have to drive anymore until we left!

Hey, I have to live here! It's a wonderful state, but in order to survive on the roads you have to ruthless! Florida sounds nice, but might breed complacency.

Sling, you bastard! 5 stars for YOU too!

And SOB, I'm not a Bastard, least not yet; think I have what it takes?

Sandman · « **Reply #54 on:** July 03, 2001, 07:59:00 AM »

The state's Department of Consumer Protection sided with renters against car rental company Acme Rent-a-Car, of New Haven. In an administrative complaint filed against the car rental company on Monday, the department charged Acme with violating state law when it fined drivers who exceeded the posted speed limit while driving a rental car.
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5093616,00.html

Nash · « **Reply #55 on:** July 03, 2001, 09:11:00 AM »

Knew it

Thanks for the update Sand.

Vulcan · « **Reply #56 on:** July 03, 2001, 09:59:00 PM »

Any Rental Car Company trying this on is shoveling toejam uphill with a rake.

First of, in NZ the Cops are required to meet very high standards for speed measuring equipment, including speedo's that are much more accurately calibrated. Do you think the rental car co's do this... nah!

I doubt whether GPS was used solely, more like GPS linked to the speedo. If GPS was used solely then all the technical inaccuracies in GPS would blow it for them. BTW Bloom I thought the US Military GPS-Randomizer had been removed or cut down to 5 metre accuracy?

Once again I dunno bout the US, but here we also have quite a number of PRIVATE roads. IE roads which are in back areas in farming areas. No speed limits apply to these roads. So what does the rental company do here?

Sounds like some fascist-account who drives a Honda Accord that stays 5 km/h below the speed limit decided to impose their own laws.

I say they hang the bastard!