Author Topic: Lower standards? (Read 583 times)

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #15 on:** August 06, 2005, 08:11:10 PM »

Just one other thing I want to note as well. Have any of you ever been on a school board? They decide what books to buy in many cases. Not all, it depends on how things are setup from state to state. I've actually seen (twice) school boards that voted to buy USED books secondhand from another school district that was getting new ones. To save money. In one case, the other school's representative actually told the board that they were replacing the textbooks because they had problems with them being filled with errors. The board bought them anyway. The money they saved went to the basketball program for new uniforms. Politics has no place in education. To me, the two are mutually exclusive.

midnight Target · « **Reply #16 on:** August 06, 2005, 10:07:09 PM »

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Originally posted by rshubert
O-kay, let's see:

State uses standardized testing.

Test scores are going down.

The test is obviously flawed.

Midnight, are you--by some chance--a member of any Teacher's Organization, or an academic of any kind?

Just askin', because that is almost an exact rendition of the standard NEA line.

An academic? How dare you accuse me of being ... ewwwwww educated!!!! We all know what that can lead to don't we? My god man... people would be thinking for themselves and and and not listening it Limbaugh!!!

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #17 on:** August 06, 2005, 11:48:15 PM »

People listen to him? I thought he was just trying for publicity to sell his ties.

rpm · « **Reply #18 on:** August 07, 2005, 01:38:01 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Maverick
Not that I agree with Laz on this at all but I have found one minor flaw in your scenario. The private school doesn't HAVE to accept the little cretin like the public school does.

If he has a voucher that says he can attend any school he wants to, yes they do. That's the whole problem with this voucher concept. People think they will magically rid all their problems just because they can go to a different school. They forget that so can the kids that are causing the problems.

The schools can't refuse to accept them, they have a voucher from the state that says they can attend the school of their choice. Suddenly, the schools that were filled with lilly white rich kids and had excellent academic ratings will be flooded with kids of all cultures just like the public schools are. Those "perfect" schools will become exactly the same as the public schools are now.

The root of the evil is not the school, it's the parents that don't give a **** and let their kids run wild. If they have no discipline at home, how in the world do you expect them to be disciplined at school?

Throwing money at the problem won't fix it. I remember the poor urban school in Paterson, New Jersey that was a hellhole. Principal Joe Clark, came in and confronted the problems head-on. Suddenly, academic scores improved, kids started taking pride in their school and it became an excellent school.

It didn't take any vouchers to fix the problem, it took hard work.

Raider179 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 07, 2005, 03:50:51 AM »

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Originally posted by lazs2
so long as we vote for democrats we will never have vouchers and continue to have the bloated and badly run monopoly on our future called the public school system.

lazs

Calculate the percent of your income that goes to education based on the fact that the government spends what 5% of the budget on education. So lets say you pay 20k in taxes, which is a lot. Your only paying 1k for your child to be in school. Now how many of you only have 1 kid? Voucher my ass. Private school is so expensive the voucher for your 1k aint gonna even touch their lunch expenses.

public schools teach kids about the real world. Private school brings out an elitist attitude in kids. Seen it way too many times. Better off teaching them yourself.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #20 on:** August 07, 2005, 03:59:02 AM »

In Oregon, the state (thru my taxes) doles out about $10,000 per annum per child to educate our youth. Schools get 400 X $10K if they have 400 students. That is a defacto voucher system now, it just doesn't allow the parent to choose what is best for his kid.

Charter schools can be set up that get $8K per kid from the state and they have done a better job on 80% the cost than the traditional public school.

A voucher system would not be much different from the charter system we have already have in place except a parent could take the 10K already allotted to his kid and enroll his kid in any school that makes the grade.

Raider179 · « **Reply #21 on:** August 07, 2005, 04:29:02 AM »

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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
In Oregon, the state (thru my taxes) doles out about $10,000 per annum per child to educate our youth. Schools get 400 X $10K if they have 400 students. That is a defacto voucher system now, it just doesn't allow the parent to choose what is best for his kid.

Charter schools can be set up that get $8K per kid from the state and they have done a better job on 80% the cost than the traditional public school.

A voucher system would not be much different from the charter system we have already have in place except a parent could take the 10K already allotted to his kid and enroll his kid in any school that makes the grade.

But how does this affect the fact that 90% pay half the taxes? Has anyone got any info on how the rich affect the state tax level?

Either way damn 10k sounds like a lot. I am sure it not near that down in this fine state of georgia . lol 49th out 50th on test scores. haha you suck south carolina

lamo

Raider179 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 07, 2005, 04:30:03 AM »

the bad speelling was on porpoise

parker00 · « **Reply #23 on:** August 07, 2005, 08:28:05 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
so long as we vote for democrats we will never have vouchers and continue to have the bloated and badly run monopoly on our future called the public school system.

lazs

Have you ever had a thought that didn't blame the democrats?

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #24 on:** August 07, 2005, 01:53:14 PM »

I dont think he does.

But as a Democrat myself...........he's usually right. Personally, I still think the whole voucher thing could be fixed to where it works and addresses the concerns of people like lazs, but if not oh well. Because he was right on one thing. All it takes to fix what we have is hard work. Thats why no one wants to fix it. We've become lazy as a general rule in this country, and dont want to do the work. Until enough of us get behind it to make the politicians listen, it wont happen. I dont care if they are Democrat, Republican, or Martian.

nirvana · « **Reply #25 on:** August 07, 2005, 02:56:16 PM »

Children that cannot learn need to be put in classes where they will accel, not trying to shove them into a class where they will not do anything but get in trouble and invariably fail. There are schools for kids who have "problems" but I don't think enough are shoved into these 2 hour "prep schools". Leave a child behind, how hard are their parents trying to get them on track? Seems like the first thing these kids at my school are taught is how to be a slacker.

When you put in disruptive kids in classes with kids who are trying to learn, they ultimately affect the class, either by the teacher needing to consistently clear up issues or because the child is distracting another student. No child left behind is BS. Any kid who tries to learn in a class with a few that don't want to learn they are all being left behind. I can see half of my school eventually saying "you want fries with that?"

Gunslinger · « **Reply #26 on:** August 07, 2005, 04:14:18 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by nirvana
Children that cannot learn need to be put in classes where they will accel, not trying to shove them into a class where they will not do anything but get in trouble and invariably fail. There are schools for kids who have "problems" but I don't think enough are shoved into these 2 hour "prep schools". Leave a child behind, how hard are their parents trying to get them on track? Seems like the first thing these kids at my school are taught is how to be a slacker.

When you put in disruptive kids in classes with kids who are trying to learn, they ultimately affect the class, either by the teacher needing to consistently clear up issues or because the child is distracting another student. No child left behind is BS. Any kid who tries to learn in a class with a few that don't want to learn they are all being left behind. I can see half of my school eventually saying "you want fries with that?"

no child left behind has less to do with keeping bad kids in calss but more of keeping schools accountable for the federal money we give them. Remember this is your money as well.

Why pay billions of dollars in education money that doesn't go to educating children?

Recently we had a "thing" out in victorville were the school district administrator and the school board was authorizing HUGE bonuses and raises for the head guy. After 4 years he would have an average salery of $1.2 MILLION up from $225K. This was all arranged in a closed door session.

Meanwhile teachers and parents had to have bake sales and fundraisers in order to make sure classrooms had luxury items like pens paper pencils chalk and what not.

The public finally got wind of it and demanded accountability and the guys salery got axed to $220k anual.

Keep in mind this isn't a huge school district at all. Alot of federal dollars are going towards administration and not towards the students themselves without any accountablility what so ever. This is were NCLB helps.

loser · « **Reply #27 on:** August 07, 2005, 04:30:17 PM »

Pretty good stuff there Star, but it isnt the education system that needs changing.

It is society's way of thinking as a whole.

You are right, our generation sucks. Every person my age that I know that has children doesnt do half, no, a quarter of what my parents did for me.

Too busy watching reality tv to teach your kid how to read?..no worries, the TV will do it. If not, then the people at the daycare will teach them (cause owning that extra SUV is more important that staying home to actually raise your kids.)

Oh and don't worry about making dinner. That comes in a foil bag or a box or in the form of a happy meal.

What I'm trying to say is that the real problem isnt education. It is everyone after our parent's generation that is perfectly happy to let "the next guy/girl" do their job. Everyone starts to do this, and guess what? Nothing gets done.

lazs2 · « **Reply #28 on:** August 08, 2005, 08:52:49 AM »

Hmm... interesting thoughts on vouchers.... first... that it is not entireley the democrats fault that we don't have em... this is wrong... it is entirely their fault as they are as tied to the NEA as the republicans are to the NRA.

Next... that the private vocher schools could accept or not children based on... on what? they would have to accept everyone...

Next... that if they did accept a gangbanger he would bring the public school problem to the private schools.... again, wrong... he could be throw out if he did not perform or was a disipline problem.. studied have shown that even the worse inner city kids go better in private schools.

lastly... that the only monies that go to school is a thousand dollars per student? more like 10k per student... you pay weather you have kids or not... we all pay... even lotto players pay... we all have a vested interest in seeing our kids do better.

lazs