Protestors at soldier's funeral

[Rino]

Originally posted by SMIDSY
so u just asked that question to misslead me? you suggested that they could be called partisans, not me. i call them resistance fighters.

     So what you gonna call these heros when they carbomb a
friend or family member?  Semantics suck.

[SMIDSY]

gunslinger, just stop. they are resisting the american/brit/etc. occupation just like the french, dutch, belgian, etc. resistances resisted the german/italian occupations. their goals are the same: to expell the invading powers at any cost. it is not an insult, it is a comparison. just like comparing modern armored tactics to that used by the germans in WWII. my point is they are using similar strategies because they have worked in the past and they will work in the present. so if you call these resistance fighters "terrorists" it is YOU who is insulting the anti-nazi resistance fighters of WWII.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by SMIDSY
gunslinger, just stop. they are resisting the american/brit/etc. occupation just like the french, dutch, belgian, etc. resistances resisted the german/italian occupations. their goals are the same: to expell the invading powers at any cost. it is not an insult, it is a comparison. just like comparing modern armored tactics to that used by the germans in WWII. my point is they are using similar strategies because they have worked in the past and they will work in the present. so if you call these resistance fighters "terrorists" it is YOU who is insulting the anti-nazi resistance fighters of WWII.

how many chruches did the french bomb because they were of a different "sect" so to speak.  How many random civilians did the french kill?  How many religious gatherings did the french set bombs off in?  

Freedom fighters don't fight against freedom they fight for it.

[Fishu]

Originally posted by SMIDSY
fishu, "foriegn insurgent" is an oxymoron. an insurgent is someone who attacks from within the country being attacked. i already said most of what you said (albeit less elegently).

Well, maybe it's just because english is a foreign language to me, but an english dictionary doesn't indicate it couldn't be a foreigner.


Gunslinger,

There isn't many (if at all) sources on how many civilians they killed, because most of the civilian deaths are credited to germans - which wasn't particularly hard to do.
It's the victors history and the least you want to do after a war, when celebrating the liberators and resistance fighters, is to find out how many "innocent" civilians were killed by the resistance fighters.
Some resistance groups actually often fought against each others interests, which happened quite frequently especially in Italy.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Fishu
Well, maybe it's just because english is a foreign language to me, but an english dictionary doesn't indicate it couldn't be a foreigner.


Gunslinger,

There isn't many (if at all) sources on how many civilians they killed, because most of the civilian deaths are credited to germans - which wasn't particularly hard to do.
It's the victors history and the least you want to do after a war, when celebrating the liberators and resistance fighters, is to find out how many "innocent" civilians were killed by the resistance fighters.
Some resistance groups actually often fought against each others interests, which happened quite frequently especially in Italy.

I feel that the so called "insurgancy" in Iraq is more about Jihad than it is overcoming ocupation.  By that I mean that there was a huge percentage of the population that did not like Sadam and would have loved to have seen him gone.  Probably not at the expense of ocupation though.

That is yet another major difference in the comparison of the WWII resistance to the Iraqi "insurgancy".  Maybe if it was a little well known or written about that france was on the verge of civil war while under German occupation I might be inclined to agree with the earlier comparison.  

lastly I feel this deserves it's own thread.  I think the original post about funeral protestors speaks for itself and is a different subject in it and of itself.

[Slash27]

Originally posted by Russian
Allow Honor Guard to use live ammo. Ready - AIM - FIRE...

Smartest thing Ive read in this thread.

[detch01]

Originally posted by SMIDSY
they are resisting the american/brit/etc. occupation just like the french, dutch, belgian, etc. resistances resisted the german/italian occupations. their goals are the same: to expell the invading powers at any cost. it is not an insult, it is a comparison. just like comparing modern armored tactics to that used by the germans in WWII. my point is they are using similar strategies because they have worked in the past and they will work in the present. so if you call these resistance fighters "terrorists" it is YOU who is insulting the anti-nazi resistance fighters of WWII.

These wackos in Iraq - whatever you want to call them are killing more of their own than American servicemen. They are for the most part murdering for the sake of murdering. Settling personal scores or religious ones. There is no "resistance". There is more opposition to the Iraqi government, a government elected by Iraqis btw, than there is opposition to the US military. This isn't about removing an occupying force, it's about establishing an islamofacist regime in Iraq.
Equating the wackos in Iraq with the resistance movements in WW2 Europe is an insult and a slap in the face to your own military and  its members serving in Iraq. The flip side to that is that if the islamofacists = WW2 ETO resistance fighters, then the US military in Iraq = nazi occupation.
In contrast to nazi SOPs:
The US military doesn't use atrocity or torture as a matter of policy.
The US military doesn't take hostages to ensure good behaviour.
The US military doesn't massacre people because of their skin colour, religion or ethnic background.
The US military doesn't kidnap people and enslave them to work in US factories.
The US military does do its absolute best to reduce or eliminate civilian casualties.
Re the Iraqi government. The US did not install a puppet regime, no matter what the limp-wristed left say. The US said (and I'm reducing a whole whack of negotiation and policy to two simple sentences) "Iraq, though shalt have an election to form a government. Elect who ever the hell you want but elect someone who YOU want to be in charge here".
Smidsy, you might want to pull your head out from there, get some fresh air in your lungs and have a look around before you start concluding who is and who isn't the bad guy here.


asw

[Gunslinger]

I got one for ya SMIDSY,

How many videos were made of french resistance chopping off the heads of reporters, clerics, woman, and basically innocent people to include diplomats for terror effect?

[BUG_EAF322]

Freedom fighters don't fight against freedom they fight for it.

Exactly

Now if ur people are tortured and supressed against all human rights.

it would feel more legimit.

instead they terorize their qown people

they dont want human right

they dont want freedom of speak

they want to ruin their country

they dont deserve much rights

[WpnX]

Originally posted by SMIDSY
gunslinger, just stop. they are resisting the american/brit/etc. occupation just like the french, dutch, belgian, etc. resistances resisted the german/italian occupations. their goals are the same: to expell the invading powers at any cost. it is not an insult, it is a comparison. just like comparing modern armored tactics to that used by the germans in WWII. my point is they are using similar strategies because they have worked in the past and they will work in the present. so if you call these resistance fighters "terrorists" it is YOU who is insulting the anti-nazi resistance fighters of WWII.

SMIDSY,
Take is easy young seaman, or yet to be seaman. First of all, don't try educating everybody on what's happening in Iraq if you've never been there. I have 3 tours there and I have a pretty good idea of what is happening there. You cannot just classify all of the enemy fighters in Iraq into one category. There are jihadists, foreign fighters, criminals and yes, there are insurgents and terrorists. I have some pretty graphic pictures of some terrorist acts on the local civilians - there was only one purpose for these acts and that was to terrorise the local populace. It's almost unbelievable what one human will do to another.
Another thing, don't correct people on their spelling when you need a spell checker yourself. Just lighten up bud.


Back to the original post, this stuff makes me sick. I would have gone to jail if I would have been there that day and it would have been worth it too - I can't believe somebody hasn't stomped the $**t out of these people yet.
My condolences go out to that Soldier's family.

[Nash]

Originally posted by WpnX
I have 3 tours there and I have a pretty good idea of what is happening there.

Jeeze - that's awesome, and .

It'd be great if you could give us the low down from your perspective - because we just don't hear it that much. Either here, or in a new thread if it's too off-topic for this one.

Really interested in your take on it.

[Gunslinger]

thanks for the post WpnX

I'm still wondering to myself if these guys would have a constitutional leg to stand on with free speech and all.  

To me I would say no this is more like disorderly conduct than a protest but I guess there's a fine line.  Or is there?

Common sense would say it is disrespectful and shouldnt be done, they can protest elsewhere and don't have to disrespect a greiving family.

[Fishu]

Originally posted by detch01

The US military doesn't use atrocity or torture as a matter of policy.

They do do it too much at the moment and tries to say its not torturing or against the human rights or... whatever they use as an excuse to torture their prisoners that we've been hearing of and what we've heard of, hasn't been isolated just into one or two prisons.

[detch01]

Originally posted by Fishu
They do do it too much at the moment and tries to say its not torturing or against the human rights or... whatever they use as an excuse to torture their prisoners that we've been hearing of and what we've heard of, hasn't been isolated just into one or two prisons.

There's no denying that there have been far too many instances of mistreatment (one is too many and there have been several). The fact that there have been criminal prosecutions within the US military in regard to these incidences is pretty indicative of what will or won't be accepted by the American people as US policy.


asw

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by Fishu
They do do it too much at the moment and tries to say its not torturing or against the human rights or... whatever they use as an excuse to torture their prisoners that we've been hearing of and what we've heard of, hasn't been isolated just into one or two prisons.

Define 'torture'.

I find nekkid dogpiles, wearing a bra and halter and being made to bark like a dog just freakin hilarious.