Author Topic: Italy '43 now up and running  (Read 1331 times)

Offline Oldman731

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« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2005, 09:45:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by detch01
Given the same driver, a SpitV with an alt advantage is no more dangerous than any other well-gunned mid-war fighter in the game.

Hmmmm.

Here we part company, brother asw.

- oldman

Offline detch01

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« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2005, 01:16:00 AM »
OM - actually was thinking "given the same driver in the same circumstances...
Successfully fighting against a spitV with alt pretty much in my experience follows the same general principals as fighting any other dangerous airplane with alt. Stay close enough to keep an eye on him and see what he's up to but not staying close enough that he can get a direct vertical drop on me. That gives me the horizontal room to affect the shape of the fight if he does drop in. The SpitV isn't an easy target or particularly easy to avoid but it most certainly is not impossible to beat. Get them fast and that infamous turn rate goes out the window as does any semblance of a decent roll rate. I am less afraid of a high SpitV with a good stick in it than I am of a high p38 with the same quality driver. The Spit's roll rate goes down when it gets very fast - the 38's roll rate increases and it's got the long-range sniper pack in the nose. The D11 jug is just as dangerous as the p38's with an alt advantage, it's roll rate doesn't degrade, it accelerates rapidly downhill and it's got 8 low-trajectory long range hitters in the wings. Either of the spits have to get much closer to affectively use the hispanos and by that time it's generally well beyond its fighting envelope. Eventually, provided of course I manage to survive long enough, the oppo's going to screw up and fly under me and climb up in front, and/or I'm going to be able to force the overshoot. If there's no overshoot when the oppo is more or less coalt, I increase speed to equalize relative E-states and have at him.
Of course I'm talking significant altitude - 1000yds or greater. At lower alt advantages just do your best to force an overshoot if you can't take him on the nose.

Krusty.
  I am at a loss... You surpass yourself sir. You have the nerve to call my flying timid without the information to back it up while having already stated in this thread that the SpitV with alt is virtually unbeatable. And I quote:

But detch: What you describe is what most people consider timid flying. Running or avoiding the fight to wear down the opponent.

"There is not one single thing you can do at ALL that will give you an advantage, and 90% of everything you can do will give the spit5 that much more of an easy target."

The distance of your jump to that conclusion is truly awe inspiring. Perhaps you should read my reply (this post) to OM and reconsider your opinion of my "timid" flying style.
Re: consistant "1-ping" kills - bud that hay has already been through the bull.
 
And this is where I cease making heretical posts on the dread Spitfire MkV.

asw
asw
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semper in excretio, solum profundum variat

Offline StarOfAfrica2

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« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2005, 01:22:09 AM »
I'd like to chime in on the "LW conspiracy" thing.

First off, I once believed the 109 FMs were hosed myself.  I proved myself wrong by spending time in them and learning them.  It was me that was hosed, not the 109.  The FW needs work, and Pyro has acknowledged it.  But we arent debating that.

The biggest problem anyone has with the LW rides right now is the guns.  More specifically, the ballistics of the guns.  They suck.  I noticed right away I have been spoiled by the .50s and Hispanos when I jumped in a 109F and started Spit fighting.  Even at convergence range, the guns shoot high.  

Maybe thats how they are supposed to be.  Either way, its a far steeper learning curve to learn to hit with the LW guns (or even the Japanese guns for that matter) than with the Allied stuff.

Offline Krusty

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« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2005, 11:27:14 AM »
"But detch: What you describe is what most people consider timid flying. Running or avoiding the fight to wear down the opponent."

"There is not one single thing you can do at ALL that will give you an advantage, and 90% of everything you can do will give the spit5 that much more of an easy target."

Detch, you said that people should fly agressive, and then describe tactics that many do not consider "agressive". Hey, *I'm* not saying they're timid tactics. I just said I consider them passive (defensive) moves, to get back to the agressive (offensive) positions.

If a spitV has alt over a 109F, the second quote holds. You have very limited options. You basically avoid diving passes long enough that he wears down his E and/or alt, or you try to equalize E states with a high speed dive or lead him away at high speeds.

At that point you have some more options, but until then you're out of luck.


First of all, I was just pointing out that you might be using a misleading word, and that perhaps a different word would be better, or perhaps a different description of what you mean would be clearer. I was not making judgements on your ideas at all. I was saying that some might read that and think that's being the opposite of agressive (language/wording problem)

Second of all, High spitv quote is pretty accurate for me, even if I'm in the relatively nimble F-4. It's not that I've stopped being agressive. It's that I'm a realist, and I know how limited I am.

No F-15 pilot is going to say he is going to outrun an Sr-72, for example. Part of fighting is knowing your ride's capabilities. I still consider myself agressive, but there are times I know I'm just well and truly porked, advantage wise.

Oh, and it seems most people can get instant 1-ping disabling shots or kills in hispanos. Most have no trouble aiming or shooting at long ranges, too. Perhaps you need to tweak the convergences or (no offense intended) practice long shots more. They're quite easy and usually 1 ping with hispano is all it takes.

P.S. is anybody else annoyed that you lose BOTH tail planes in 1 hit? I'd like to keep 1 and at least pretend I can limp home and land! -- although I wonder if that'd be an unstable flight or not?

Offline Widewing

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« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2005, 10:33:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Nope, not so! Not too long ago (several months) I did a SpitV vs SpitIX speed test on the deck (I was curious). I set fuel burn to zero, took full fuel, tool off, from a few hundred feet dove down to ten feet or so (barely skimming the sea) and left it on WEP til the E6B wouldn't show me getting any faster. Then I left it there for a while to make doubly sure. The spit9 was the second test, so I'm a bit hazy on the exact speed, but the spit5 in AH2 (as we have it now) will only do 290 fft and 305/309 WEP. My impression was that I was surprised the spit9 was only 10mph faster than the spit5.



Ok, I tested both tonight. 50% gas for both, 25% either way, more or less, makes no difference in speed. 50 feet above sea level. Carefully measured using E6B. Calibrated throttle prior to runs. 2 runs of each repeated results.

Spit IX: 319 mph with WEP, 310 mph without WEP.
Spit V: 316 mph with WEP, 289 mph without WEP.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Grits

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« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2005, 11:26:08 PM »
Widewing is of course correct that the Spit IX is only 3 MPH faster than the V.