Author Topic: The Republican Party  (Read 3184 times)

Offline Raider179

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« Reply #150 on: August 29, 2005, 01:03:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
and... yes... I believe that one sided ecucation by wrote with no personal involvement in research is evil.  I believe that is very close to simple propoganda.

lazs


That is one broad statement that in no way reflects my academic experience. But I am sure the NRA website tells ya that education is bad. :rofl

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #151 on: August 29, 2005, 01:21:38 PM »
Laz seems to me a true Jeffersonian democrat.

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Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have ... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases. --- Thomas Jefferson  


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"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." ---Thomas Jefferson  
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #152 on: August 29, 2005, 02:07:40 PM »
yep... I suppose that I am more of a Jeffersonian democrat than anything.   I didn't really leave the democratic party... they left me.

raider... talk about putting words in peoples mouth... you are the champ... you are telling me what I think about education... over and over.

where is your example of a rash of machine gun killings?  You realize that there are still huindreds of thousands of em out there... where are the killings... you point to one killing in a country of 300 million done with a semi automatic carbine and a semi auto pistol?  do you want to ban all semi autos?  

where do you draw the line?

A pilots licence does not cost 5 thousand dollars.   but... let us continue with the private plane analodgy... you seem to be implying that the gun licence and the plane one are the same...

certainly there is great potential for harm in either...  My understanding tho is that the plane licencing is for skill only... not intent... there is nothing in the process that would prevent any private pilot from using his plane as a far more deadly weapon than any "machine gun"   And... who really needs a private plane?  they are just toys for those not using them in business..

If we ban things simply on the basis of potential for harm... private planes would seem a logical choice.

I believe that I am doing something about gun laws using this BB...  I don't care if I convince you.... I believe that others on this board read the debate and form an opinion... I believe that not having you be convinced is minor and that you are doing a great job of making my point for me.

I thank you for that.

And... have you ever visited the NRA website?  Is there something evil or untrue there that I should be aware of or.... are you just regurgitating something that one of your professors told you again?

lazs
« Last Edit: August 29, 2005, 02:10:10 PM by lazs2 »

Offline Raider179

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« Reply #153 on: August 29, 2005, 05:45:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2

raider... talk about putting words in peoples mouth... you are the champ... you are telling me what I think about education... over and over.

 or.... are you just regurgitating something that one of your professors told you again?

lazs


And you make my point. Your attitude toward college is evident. by lines like these.

You can get a PPL for around 5k. sorry but that is true.

You say semi-auto carbine, but I didnt read that anywhere. It said AK-47. Not semi-auto ak47...

Jeez do I even have to bring up the two bank robbers in LA? They held off law enforcement for damn an hour and how many people were shot again? 12 cops and 8 civilians. I think that demostrates exactly why full autos should not be legal.

yeah just ignores stuff like that or call them isolated incidents. Maybe the reason they ARE isolated incidents are that Full-auto's are illegal.

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #154 on: August 29, 2005, 06:56:35 PM »
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Jeez do I even have to bring up the two bank robbers in LA? They held off law enforcement for damn an hour and how many people were shot again? 12 cops and 8 civilians. I think that demostrates exactly why full autos should not be legal.


Hate to interrupt your convo Raider, but I have to stop you here.


This does not demonstrate why full autos should be illegal.  It demonstrates why full autos should be completely legal.


How long would this robbery have taken place if Bobby, June, Susie, and Billy from up the street all came out sportin' m60's?
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Offline Toad

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« Reply #155 on: August 29, 2005, 11:21:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
Jeez do I even have to bring up the two bank robbers in LA?  


Please do.

On February 28, 1997, Matasareanu and Phillips tried to rob a Bank of America branch office in North Hollywood, California. While trying to escape, the two men engaged in a shootout with police. Though vastly outnumbered, the two men—armed with automatic weapons and wearing body armor—successfully held off law enforcement personnel for hours before being shot and killed by police.

Both were caught 3 months previous with a car full of Weapons and Robbery related goods.(October 23,1993). Held on various charges and eventually serving 99 Days(Phillips) and 71 Days (Matasareanu). Firearms charges plea bargained away and Judge ordered most firearms returned.

The weapons used in North Hollywood were originally bought at a gun show and then illegally resold to Matasareanu and Phillips.

These weapons were:

Chinese Type84S, illegally converted full auto, folding stock;Triple
Mags,Taped;
 
Rumanian Kalashnakov, illegally converted auto, folding stock,with 90rd Drum Mag;

Heckler & Koch HK91A3, illegally converted auto, collapsable stock;

Berretta Model 92, 9MM Para

The owner of the gun store that "loaned" the police some heavier weaponry did not insist on the manditory 15 day waiting period.


How many laws were broken in this incident?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Wolf14

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« Reply #156 on: August 29, 2005, 11:31:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
How many laws were broken in this incident?


One

Most law enforcement personel are usualy exempt from waiting periods.

Being some of these guys were in uniform with others, they probably just had to show their badge/ identification providing it wasnt already in plain sight.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #157 on: August 29, 2005, 11:34:42 PM »
Wrong answer.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Wolf14

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« Reply #158 on: August 29, 2005, 11:47:13 PM »
I'm sorry actualy three. I would say four, but I would asume the judge has a good grapse on the law and at the time had a reason for giving them back. Theres not enough information I can find that says what the judges reasonings were as to why he felt it was ok to give them back.

1. The weapons were illeagaly converted
2. They weapons were illeagaly sold
3. Depending on what they charged for would depend on if they got the weapons back or not.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #159 on: August 30, 2005, 08:13:08 AM »
nope raider... wrong on everything again... I never implied anything about ecucation except that yours seems to be very limited and propogandized... I have 60 or 70 (forget how many) units over the years myself that I paid for myself and took at night while working a normal job.   I did very well in all those classes.  

The actul licence to fly a plane is very inexpensive... perhaps you are talking about flight school?

Now.. the evil machine guns.... those used in the LA robbery... we should be glad that the robbers made such a poor choice and that everyone involved was such poor shots.   any standard hunting rifle in the hands of the crooks would have done many times more damage than the piddly lillte AK's spraying and praying..  Hunting arms are many times more powerful and could have penetrated body armor and vehicles and a trained and skilled marksman would have killed....  estimate?   30 cops that day.... even a lever action hunting rifle would have been worse for the cops.  It wasn't the full auto AK's that were causing the cops problems it was the body armor the bad guys wore and the lack od a decent weapon to penetrate said armor...  you will note that cops now have full auto "assault weapons" in most vehicles (at least in Kalifornia) here.

the point is... someone will allways abuse their freedom... you do not use that to take away the law abidings rights... not in a free country..  as an example... say that an insane person used a private plane to crash into a school yard with a full tank or loaded with a fertilizer bomb.... would you ban private planes for all?  what if two a year did it?  three?   The potential for great harm is there.... what about swimming?  people drown.... people drown trying to save em.   not just a few.... thousands a year.  No one NEEDS to swim.  

What do you do besides attend classes and attack bad guys with your bare hands?  I bet I could make a case for banning it.

so excuse me if I don't want to be left to your tender mercies and bizzare uneducated logic as to what types of weapons you would allow me to have... you seem much to "progressive" and fickle and trendy to have such power over the rest of us.   You don't know anything about guns and you don't even know what you want in any case.

lazs
« Last Edit: August 30, 2005, 08:18:45 AM by lazs2 »

Offline Raider179

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« Reply #160 on: August 30, 2005, 11:58:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
nope raider... wrong on everything again... I never implied anything about ecucation except that yours seems to be very limited and propogandized... I have 60 or 70 (forget how many) units over the years myself that I paid for myself and took at night while working a normal job.   I did very well in all those classes.  

The actul licence to fly a plane is very inexpensive... perhaps you are talking about flight school?

Now.. the evil machine guns.... those used in the LA robbery... we should be glad that the robbers made such a poor choice and that everyone involved was such poor shots.   any standard hunting rifle in the hands of the crooks would have done many times more damage than the piddly lillte AK's spraying and praying..  Hunting arms are many times more powerful and could have penetrated body armor and vehicles and a trained and skilled marksman would have killed....  estimate?   30 cops that day.... even a lever action hunting rifle would have been worse for the cops.  It wasn't the full auto AK's that were causing the cops problems it was the body armor the bad guys wore and the lack od a decent weapon to penetrate said armor...  you will note that cops now have full auto "assault weapons" in most vehicles (at least in Kalifornia) here.

the point is... someone will allways abuse their freedom... you do not use that to take away the law abidings rights... not in a free country..  as an example... say that an insane person used a private plane to crash into a school yard with a full tank or loaded with a fertilizer bomb.... would you ban private planes for all?  what if two a year did it?  three?   The potential for great harm is there.... what about swimming?  people drown.... people drown trying to save em.   not just a few.... thousands a year.  No one NEEDS to swim.  

What do you do besides attend classes and attack bad guys with your bare hands?  I bet I could make a case for banning it.

so excuse me if I don't want to be left to your tender mercies and bizzare uneducated logic as to what types of weapons you would allow me to have... you seem much to "progressive" and fickle and trendy to have such power over the rest of us.   You don't know anything about guns and you don't even know what you want in any case.

lazs


1) I have been saying PPL  5k from the beginning of that whole line of thought.

2)I do the same. I work and go to school. And have been doing that for the last 8 years. I will get done eventually, but I won't quit until I graduate.

3) It's hilarious that you can claim my education is "limited and propaghandized" by me not agreeing with you on guns. That shows Your limited mentality and how everything comes down to guns with you.

4)Yeah right, Rifles wouldn't have stood up for 2 minutes against the entire LAPD. THe only reason that went on so long is the combination of body armor and that  they were Full Auto's with huge drums of ammo.

5)Maybe with extensive background checks and licensing I would have no problem with Full auto's being legal. Oh wait, it already is like that. Get your paperwork in order and you can own them. Can't afford it? Tough.

6) Already pointed out to you that laws were tightened around Ammonium nitrate after mcviegh did OK City. So your example works against you. Yes, I would expect laws to be stricter after such an occurence in order to prevent repeats/copycats.

7)LMAO you are comparing swimming to fire-arms? WoW :lol :lol

8)Already told you no full auto's is what I agree with. I have stated it several times. It's 1 sentence. Sorry if its so hard for you to grasp.

9)Lasz simple question, Can you or Can you not purchase a fully automatic weapon if you get the proper licenseing and register it?

Offline Raider179

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« Reply #161 on: August 30, 2005, 11:59:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Hate to interrupt your convo Raider, but I have to stop you here.


This does not demonstrate why full autos should be illegal.  It demonstrates why full autos should be completely legal.


How long would this robbery have taken place if Bobby, June, Susie, and Billy from up the street all came out sportin' m60's?


Totally disagree.

 I wonder how many people would have got killed in the crossfire being that Bobby, June, Susie, and Billy probably don't have any real training and would just open up, shooting and hitting anyone in the way.

Not too mention being as they are dressed as civilians and not cops, they might have gotten themselves mistaken for the robbers.

Offline Raider179

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« Reply #162 on: August 30, 2005, 12:02:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Please do.

On February 28, 1997, Matasareanu and Phillips tried to rob a Bank of America branch office in North Hollywood, California. While trying to escape, the two men engaged in a shootout with police. Though vastly outnumbered, the two men—armed with automatic weapons and wearing body armor—successfully held off law enforcement personnel for hours before being shot and killed by police.

Both were caught 3 months previous with a car full of Weapons and Robbery related goods.(October 23,1993). Held on various charges and eventually serving 99 Days(Phillips) and 71 Days (Matasareanu). Firearms charges plea bargained away and Judge ordered most firearms returned.

The weapons used in North Hollywood were originally bought at a gun show and then illegally resold to Matasareanu and Phillips.

These weapons were:

Chinese Type84S, illegally converted full auto, folding stock;Triple
Mags,Taped;
 
Rumanian Kalashnakov, illegally converted auto, folding stock,with 90rd Drum Mag;

Heckler & Koch HK91A3, illegally converted auto, collapsable stock;

Berretta Model 92, 9MM Para

The owner of the gun store that "loaned" the police some heavier weaponry did not insist on the manditory 15 day waiting period.


How many laws were broken in this incident?


What does this have to do with the danger of Full-automatic weapons being legalized. I used the LA robbery to show what that kind of fire-power is capable of.

I am sorry I didn't realize you couldn't "loan" a gun. I only thought the waiting period was for purchases :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: August 30, 2005, 12:15:21 PM by Raider179 »

Offline Toad

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« Reply #163 on: August 30, 2005, 12:05:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
What does this have to do with the danger of Full-automatic weapons being legalized.  


It highlights the reality that "legal" or "illegal" really doesn't make a difference.

All the guns used in the LA robbery were "illegal".
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Raider179

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« Reply #164 on: August 30, 2005, 12:18:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
It highlights the reality that "legal" or "illegal" really doesn't make a difference.

All the guns used in the LA robbery were "illegal".


They were full auto's. The legality of them has no bearing on the point I was making about the amount of fire-power they can throw up. What was it 1,100 rounds they fired?

If as legal as rifles and pistols, I think you would see an increase in these types of situations.