Author Topic: Some Canadian Gun rights refreshers for you Rip  (Read 1605 times)

Offline Gman

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Some Canadian Gun rights refreshers for you Rip
« on: December 09, 2000, 01:28:00 PM »
These are taken right from the Canadian Firearms Center's Page.


Can I keep a firearm for self-protection?

A licence to acquire or possess a restricted firearm is rarely issued to an individual for the purpose of protecting the life of that individual or others. In Canada, this kind of protection is seen to be primarily the responsibility of the police.

I have heard that with this new Firearms Act that the police can enter my house anytime they want. Is this true?

The Firearms Act deals only with inspection powers. Inspections of dwelling are restricted to ONLY those individuals who own prohibited firearms, or more than 10 firearms of any kind, or a collection. An inspector cannot inspect a private residence where there are no prohibited firearms, where there are fewer than 10 non-restricted or restricted firearms or where there are firearms that are not part of a gun collection.

A Firearms Officer cannot enter your house unless you have given them consent to do so, or they have obtained a Search Warrant to enter. A Firearms Officer is required to give you reasonable advance notice of the inspection. You are then required by law to permit a Firearms Officer entry to that part of your house where your firearms are stored. Failure to lend reasonable assistance to a Firearms Officer conducting an Inspection after the required notice has been given is an offence, and could result in the application of a Search Warrant which would then allow the police and a Firearms Officer to enter your house without your consent. The only time a Search Warrant would ever be applied for is in cases where an individual refuses to allow a Firearms Officer to conduct an Inspection after the required advance notice has been given, or in rare circumstances where there is advance evidence that a criminal offence is being committed inside the house.

Is the registration of hunting rifles and shotguns the first step toward their confiscation?

Not at all. As long ago as 1977, when the FAC (Firearms Acquisition Certificate) was first introduced in the Criminal Code, opponents argued that it would lead to confiscation of all firearms. That did not happen. Moreover, the FAC-based system became widely accepted by the gun-owning community. Now, licensing and registration provisions have been put in the Firearms Act. This will establish a system to permit the continued use of firearms for legitimate purposes – for example, hunting, target shooting, collecting, farming and ranching. The Firearms Act is about regulation of firearms, not confiscation.

How is the Firearms Act affecting police service and why is the money not being put into these services rather than the Act as a more useful way to fight crime?

Much of the firearms related work that your local police once had to do has now shifted to your provincial Canadian Firearms Office, thus freeing up even more local police resources for the general public. Police, including the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police and the Canadian Police Association, both support the Act as a means of helping them share information fast concerning the misuse of firearms.

My Views

First Point:  LOL!  Like there is a Cop on every corner to protect us here.  A check of the local crime/murder/assualt stats will show that Calgary, and indeed a lot of the rest of Canada is NO safer than the USA.  They have NEVER issued a permit for self defence against criminals, only against animals (bear mainly), and then only if you work a certain % of the time in bear country, and don't mind waiting 3 years to have your permit processed.

Yesterday the news ran a spot about personal protection devices.  The police said that even using this little noisemakers was ill advised, since it could "anger" your attacker into hurting you.  Like they weren't intent on that in the first place.  Carrying knives/pepper spray is also a no no, although if you were a clip knife, it is "grey area" law.  God help you if you cut somebody who is attacking you - you'll be doing time, no question - it's happened already.

The calgary city police always suggests to "do whatever your attacker wants, no matter what it is", and they ALWAYS publicly bash anyone who fights back successfully, stating that "odds were against this type of defence working, and odds were for you being hurt more".  What BS.  I've been in this situation twice:  both times the guys were drugged up - like logic applies to criminals.


Second Point:  If you own more than 10 guns as of Jan 1 2001, or ANY Pistols or restricted Rifles (Ar-15 is only restricted left - everything else is a prohibited weapon now), you are open to search.  Sure they say you can deny the firearms officer access, but the last guy that tried this here got EVERYTHING he had confiscated the next day when the officer came w/police and search warrant.  This person had broken no laws and had all guns/ammo locked in a 4000$ vault.

Third Point:  ROFL!  I've had to turn in 3 firearms as of when c-17 came in to effect in the early 90's, all of them Shotguns (2 SPas 12's and a stree sweeper).  More gov't lies.

Fourth Point, my personal Fav:  Total lies.  The police assosiation flip flopped over a year ago, and is actively against the new laws because

A: It will do nothing to make policing safer, only more dangerous, since many non-criminal owners will resort to hiding their guns, and take an adversarial attitude to police when they wouldn't have before.  Also, since criminals won't bother registering their guns, only law-abiders, wtf good is it doing?

B:  It will take far more $ and man hours for the police to back up the firearms guys who will be checking virtually everyone who owns more than 10 firearms (average per household here is 5+, so at least half have 10+, since half households have zero).

You think you have it bad down south?  

Here is the link if you want to read it yourself, just be prepared to vomit.
 http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/



[This message has been edited by Gman (edited 12-09-2000).]

Offline Ripsnort

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Some Canadian Gun rights refreshers for you Rip
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2000, 07:48:00 AM »
You and I are on the same page, brother.  I'm shocked...but what can I say?  Not as shocked as my father, or fore-fathers would have been.

The primary problem I see with gun ownership is that a miniscule minority of 1/10 of 1 % makes the rest of law-abiding gun owners sacrifice for these vermin.  And your right about police, I live in a rural area, for 3 years now I've seen 1 police car within a 10 miles radius of my neighborhood.

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2000, 01:05:00 PM »
Please note, retired Police Officer here.

Court decision: Police (in U.S.) do not have an obligation to the "individual" citizen to safeguard them. The obligation of the officer is to the "entire" population of the jurisdiction he/she works in. Decision rendered as a result of a law suit by a crime victim who sued alleging police didn't safe guard him before the crime took place, ie, the assault.

Simple logical exercise. The police CANNOT be everywhere all the time to protect you. In the U.S. police are a reactionary, not proactive preventative, force. They cannot be due to the premise that a crime or infraction must be committed before they take action. Hence since the police can't be right next to you all the time, they can't act before an incident occurs and they are notified, you will be on your own until you or someone else can call them.

Anyone who believes police can and will protect them from being the victim of a crime is living in a fantasy world. Believe it or not, quite a few criminals actually take steps to do their "thing" when the cops aren't in the area.

Thinking a cell phone will deter a crime is a fallacy. It will still take a minimum of 2 to 5 minutes for a police response assuming they are in the area and not tied up on another call. In the mean time you are on your own and what happens is up to you and the person doing bad things.

Mav
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
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Offline Gunthr

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Some Canadian Gun rights refreshers for you Rip
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2000, 01:22:00 PM »
Too bad about the Street Sweeper, Gman. Its my personal favorite "to whom it may concern" weapon.  

Gunthr
"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2000, 01:28:00 PM »
Good Post Mav.  Whats your take on private citizens with CWP's such as myself in Washington State, where anyone, except those who have felonies, can apply, and legally get a CWP?


Offline Maverick

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« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2000, 02:02:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Good Post Mav.  Whats your take on private citizens with CWP's such as myself in Washington State, where anyone, except those who have felonies, can apply, and legally get a CWP?


Ripsnort,

NEVER had a problem with people legally carrying. Ran into and arrested quite a few who were packing illegally. Biggest thing I felt was that I very much appreciated it when a ccw carrier told me they were carrying. Those that went to the classes also knew that surprising a cop about it was very bad karma. Legal carry in Arizona came late though so not too much time was left in my career then. Have noted one thing however, I don't see any of the ccw authorized folks in the news. It's always some idiot who intends to bad stuff that is the problem.

I agree with Heinlein, An armed society is a polite one.  

If ya ever come out this way we'll have to go to the range and burn some powder. Got both smokeless and black powder flavors here!

Mav

DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
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Offline Gman

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Some Canadian Gun rights refreshers for you Rip
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2000, 03:09:00 AM »
.

[This message has been edited by Gman (edited 12-12-2000).]

Offline Gman

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« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2000, 03:12:00 AM »
test

Offline StSanta

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Some Canadian Gun rights refreshers for you Rip
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2000, 03:27:00 AM »
Heh, I disagree with Henlein. The USA doesn't seem more polite than Denmark.

When yah need guns to keep a society polite, yer treating the symptoms instead of dealing with the disease.

Just IMHO.

AND, just about Henleins statement, not about gun rights in general so don't take it as a "booh guns r b4d" statement.



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TheWobble

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Some Canadian Gun rights refreshers for you Rip
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2000, 07:30:00 AM »
Guns are a disease?
I think just being a totall amazinhunk is a disease.  I had this guy with a disease try to run me off the road once and when he got next to me i pointed my 10mm at him and it really seemed to cure whatever he had, and put him very far behind me.

TheWobble

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Some Canadian Gun rights refreshers for you Rip
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2000, 07:38:00 AM »
Oh and for yall who still take it upon your selves to protect yourself and loved ones like human beings and not sheep, here are 2 links to my 1st and 2nd child

1st http://www.heckler-koch.de/pistfuk.htm
his name us usb, and he's 4.0
2nd  http://www.heckler-koch.de/gewefuk.htm
his name is SL8 and he is .223, he is my fav cause he looks cool.  
Now if you were breaking in my house, if i didnt have time to get SL8 awake, im sure USB would be ready for ya  

P.S. both weapons are legal in U.S. and SL8 is an EXCELLENT target and hunting rifle...bue he'll cost ya.
 

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2000, 07:51:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by TheWobble:
I had this guy with a disease try to run me off the road once and when he got next to me i pointed my 10mm at him and it really seemed to cure whatever he had, and put him very far behind me.

This is why Gun-control advocates have plenty of 'rhetoric ammo' in the crusade to ban guns.  Please, Wobble, take some advice my father gave me, never pull a gun on someone unless A) Your life is in danger, and I mean DANGER, not just a fist fight , but DANGER....and B)If you do pull a gun on someone, you better mean business.  If you ever make the mistake of pulling a gun on someone and not using to protect your life, then your going to have a guy like me make your life miserable for the next 6 months (Long story, but trust me on this one)


Offline Gunthr

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Some Canadian Gun rights refreshers for you Rip
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2000, 08:07:00 AM »
<S> Maverick,    
I agree that not only is it very much appreciated when a CCF permit holder tells you up front that he has a gun, but it is the common sense thing to do. Every single time I've encountered one here in Florida, the first words out of their mouth is, "I have a CCF permit, and I'm carrying." While telling you this, they keep their hands in plain view, usually on the steering wheel if in a vehicle, and then they wait for instructions. I would guess that CCF courses down here teach them that. Anyway, I too have discovered illegally carried handguns the hard way, and its always a nervewracking experience. On a pat down, it isn't too bad because you are looking for it, but when you spot one sticking out of a belt or under a seat in easy reach when nothing was said about it, everything goes from 0 to 60 in an instant.

Most, if not all, of my associates here have no problem with the CCF permit holders we encounter, and we usually find them to be quite concientious and pretty well educated about the laws regarding the use of deadly force and when it is appropriate, the laws against reckless display of the gun, and so on. I think it might be a little harder to get the permit here than it is in some other places, though.

I agree with everything else Maverick said, too. The "safety" of the public is an illusion. All cops know this. The patrol instructions given out at roll calls are given out with public perception in mind, try to show a "presence" and create the impression that we are everywhere. We do try to be proactive, but if the resources are strained, we wind up just going from call to call. If somebody breaks into your home while you are sleeping and kills your dog and strangles your wife, 9 times out of 10 we just show up and take a report. We investigate it, sure. But the point is, the cops will hardly ever have an officer posted outside your home watching for burglars.

One bit of advice I would give to any CCF permit holders who use deadly force with a handgun:

It will ruin your whole MONTH if you shoot somebody, even if you are on solid legal ground, so make sure you are really scared for your life before you pull out that gun.

   
Gunthr

PS: Wobble, I just read your post. Ripsnort is exactly right. You would be arrested for what you did with your 10mm in most any state in this country.




[This message has been edited by Gunthr (edited 12-12-2000).]
"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2000, 08:19:00 AM »
Thks for the insite, Gunthr! <S> to both of you for 'serving' the community.

TheWobble

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Some Canadian Gun rights refreshers for you Rip
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2000, 05:18:00 PM »
Ripsnort.
Let me elab on what happend a bit, I think You will se that i was more than justified. i was kinda vague.  I was headed to my friends house down the highway going 70mph, this is a 1 lane each way road with no turn lane, but it did have a shoulder.  This truck (old dodge ram i think) came up behind me FAST i was already doin 70 and he was screamin up on me.  I couldent pull over right away because we were coming up on a bridge so he had to slow, after the bridge i eased over on the shoulder to let him pass, insted of passing he pulled up next to me and just started paseing me and not letting me back in the road, i slowed to 30 and then slammed on the breaks and got behind him just a little, the he totally stopped, so i shot around and up to about 40, and here he comes again, accept this time he just pulled into the on-coming traffice lane and started moving twords me again, soo i had been forced onto the shoulder again and he was pacing me and jerking and swerving at me AGAIN!.  So I slammed on the breaks and for the 3 sec i was stopped i grapped my pistol and took off again this time up to about 60...alas here he comes again, this time when he pulled up next to me i pointed it at him, he kinda squinted ( guess he couldent tell what he was looking at) and then his eyes got as big as saucers and SCREEECH! all i saw was tire smoke and he dropped so far behind me i lost sight of him.  Now i dont think there is a time in my life i have felt more threatened, lets see what could have happened.
A: he runs me off the road and i kill myself.
B: he runs me off the road and I dont kill Myself but this wacko comes after me and i have to kill him.
C: this wacko kills himself and someone in another car because the way he is driveing

I thing givin the possible ramafacations of what could have happened i think i did the best thing for EVERYBODY, even that wierdo that was messin with me.

Now lets say that for some reason ("gun control") I did not have that gun, My life would have been at the mercy of some idgit in a pickup truck who was shoting/popping/dringking GOD knows what.  But insted i was able to stand up for myself just like everyone on god's green earth was born with the ability and OBLIGATION to do, I think the first line of defence for yourself isnt a phone or becoming a coward to whatever whoever is victimizing you wants.  To me taking guns from law abiding citizens and leaving them defenceless (other than a stupid phone) is nothing more or better than turning us into sheep.  We will become in a way inslaved by the fact that we have to rely on someone else to protect us...and well i WILL NEVER DO THAT.  If they outlaw guns here, I will not give mine up. they may make me into what they call a "criminal" but they will never make me a victim.

P.S. my dads woman frined... has a daughter that is a cop and she said that if i truely felt my life was in danger and givin the abouve situatuin i did the right thing, my only alternative would be to either die in a crash or wait till this guy REALLY comes after me in which i would have to shoot him.  I see where you coming from though, you have to be careful when judging when is the time to pull the gun, but try doing that going 70mph with some nuttjob trying to commit vehicular homicied on yer bellybutton and you will find that that time comes pretty quick.