Author Topic: One Nation Under God?  (Read 2443 times)

Offline Hangtime

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One Nation Under God?
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2001, 08:20:00 PM »
We'll need every soul, no matter his faith; in this fight for civilization.

For thats what this is... the Darkness, vs the Light of Reason.

So, every soul, of every race; in every place on this planet is now faced with this one choice...

Pray then, if it's in your dogma to do so; for The Light.

I shall not think any less of the man or woman who stands beside me guarding the Light of Freedom, no matter his race or beliefs, his nation or his ideals.

United we stand. Divided, we fall.

And THATS the name of that tune.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Eagler

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One Nation Under God?
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2001, 09:01:00 PM »
yep it's all God's fault, not freakins man..

shite - any excuse for some to spout their anti-religion views

He gave us free will -
to create or destroy -
to love or to hate -
seems we like the latter better.
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Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2001, 09:03:00 PM »
Bet you the Taliban, and the people that support them believe that the spiritually corrupt West is 'The Darkness' and they are trying to protect 'The Light'.

Offline AKSWulfe

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One Nation Under God?
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2001, 09:09:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler:
shite - any excuse for some to spout their anti-religion views

Yes, well this topic seemed like a good excuse for the original author to spout his religious views...

Door swings both ways, if you begin to proclaim that an event is somehow related to religion- expect some people to come back and refute that claim.
-SW

Offline -ammo-

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One Nation Under God?
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2001, 09:20:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM:
FWIW, I served the USN for 10 years. I continue to work for the USN as a civilian and I'm quite happy with the pay I receive.

As for the Pledge... I'm proof that we are not one nation under god, nor do I pledge allegiance to the flag, a mere symbol of something much greater.

That said... if it fits within your beliefs, go right ahead. Please try not to frown at me or people like me while you're doing it.

<S>


I am pleased that you had the oppertuinity to serve our country.

You actually are not proof of anything. This nation (note nation not you or anyone else individually) was founded under God, and Christian values in  mind. But that is not to say you dont have the right to believe what you will, however the Pledge of Allegiance is much older than any of us and it still stands in alot of schools, Thank God.

I will try not to frown on your beliefs, but the truth is you or knowone else can control my thoughts on this. I believe you are wrong and I doubt my mind will ever change on it. Ironically, most folks try and disprove that there is a God, where Christians dont try to disprove anything, we just proclaim we are right. It generally infuriates folks..

<S> thx for the consideration.
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Offline -ammo-

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« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2001, 09:29:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by funkedup:
A better comparison would be the "Christians" who murder abortionists.

Well, those folks were/are just haters. and you can call them anything you want, they can claim to be anything they want, but most assuredly God doesnt see them part of his brood.

actually Mike, I had to bring myself to respond to this, fairly hateful thing to say.
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Offline Hangtime

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One Nation Under God?
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2001, 09:40:00 PM »
We're all a bit shook by the situation.

Folks tend to try and break big problems down into smaller pieces, pieces they can grasp..

Hopefully we can all see around the pulpits, and find some common ground.

Hateful things beyond comprehension have been done... ARE BEING DONE... in the name of somebodys God.

Lets drop the labels.. and look at the ACTION itself. Judge THAT.. not in who's name it was wrought.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline StSanta

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One Nation Under God?
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2001, 12:46:00 AM »
Well, it wasn't til 1954 ya had the "One nation under God" added - so I doubt it was the thinking of yer forefathers   :)
 http://www.freeinquirynetwork.com/UnderGod.html

Ammo, while the founding fathers were religious, they went outta their way to create a constitution that was a very secular one. The introduction of "One nation under God" is a very recent one - and it's well documented. Also the Founding Fathers quite succintly argue why they wanna keep any official religion outta the Constitution.

Any government that's a theological one rather than a secular one scares me. Living in Iran would be an option if one wants one of those.
I say go back to the way it's supposed to be.

[ 09-20-2001: Message edited by: StSanta ]

Offline funkedup

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One Nation Under God?
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2001, 01:04:00 AM »
Ammo I put "Christian" in quotes because they aren't really.  I'm comparing the murderers to guys like bin Laden who get called "Muslim" even though their beliefs are far from that of main stream Muslims (at least the ones I have known).  I have issues with Falwell and Robertson but I would never compare them to bin Laden.

(Yes Sandman I understand you were comparing them only in a very specific way which you explained, but I couldn't hearing those names in the same breath as bin Laden's.   :) )

Offline easymo

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« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2001, 01:07:00 AM »
Neither Jesus, nor the Prophet taught anything remotely similar to what we are doing. I wouldn't use either of there names to justify what we are up to. I have a hunch that they are up there waiting for the guys that have.  I don't know about you, but I sure wouldn't want those guys mad at me.

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2001, 05:40:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by -ammo-:



I am pleased that you had the oppertuinity to serve our country.

You actually are not proof of anything. This nation (note nation not you or anyone else individually) was founded under God, and Christian values in  mind. But that is not to say you dont have the right to believe what you will, however the Pledge of Allegiance is much older than any of us and it still stands in alot of schools, Thank God.

I'll grant that SOME of the founding fathers were christian... I'll give you that much. As StSanta pointed out, the pledge as we know it is relatively new in U.S. history.


 
Quote
I will try not to frown on your beliefs, but the truth is you or knowone else can control my thoughts on this. I believe you are wrong and I doubt my mind will ever change on it. Ironically, most folks try and disprove that there is a God, where Christians dont try to disprove anything, we just proclaim we are right. It generally infuriates folks..

Actually, we atheists don't generally accost people door to door or in parking lots or in supermarkets, etc... asking them of their faith. We are far less instrusive. I have no interest in changing your mind. I just don't want anyone attempting to change mine. Bear true witness to your faith by being an example of it. True believers, devoid of doubt and need for consensus do not trouble me at all.

 
Quote



<S> thx for the consideration.

Funkedup, I see your point, but I compared the three simply because of their words of hate and intolerance. If we are comparing atrocities and crimes, Falwell and Robertson are not good examples (I hope).

That said, I hope no one here takes this post as a personal attack. It is not my intention.

<S>

[ 09-20-2001: Message edited by: Sandman_SBM ]
sand

Offline Greese

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One Nation Under God?
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2001, 11:19:00 AM »
What you are seeing, in all of this mess, is a general acknowledgemnet that security, as we knew it before the event, will be defined differently from that ugly moment on.  People everywhere are scrambling to feel "secure" again, since having money, wearing nice clothes, driving the nice car, etc. doeasn't matter anymore.  People are looking for something more to provide security.  All of a sudden, people are being a lot more receptive to "god", granted, it's a god they define for themselves and put into their box.  The US was founded by Christians, who were unable to practice their faith in England under the church/political rule of the time.  They set up the government in the US not to be a christian government, but to make a safe haven for anyone to come and worship their own god, or not worship, as they saw fit.  There was never an intention of injecting a christian god into the government, but likewise, people who claim "seperation of church and state" have it wrong as well.  The government was not designed to ignore people's faiths, but rather accept and acknowledge diversity and have a place of freedom where people could practice their religion free from government infuence.  

I am not going to promote my own Christian faith at this point, rather, I will say that the silence of godly people up until now was not a lack of practicing muslims, christians, Jews, whatever.  But it was a sign that most people of faith had grown comfortable, and rather than be publicly spiritual, and openly pray in public and acknowledge their god, it was much safer to do it within the confines of their religious buildings.  This tragic event has not only brought many of these people out of the woodwork, stepping up to the plate in this time of crisis, but many others who were not practicing any faith are now searching for a new definition of security.  My church normally has about 885 in attendance at the service I usually go to.  Last week, the first sunday after the disaster, there was over 1400 people.  They had to set up overflow rooms for all the people.  Do we think most of those extra people were seriously there to worship Jesus?  Probably not, but it is representative of a search for spiritual answers.  People are flocking to places of worship everywhere with a desire to say a prayer, or find deeper meaning to all this, whatever.  This is not intended to be a slam on people who choose not to beieve in anything, rather, to acknowledge that some people are finding comfort in referencing a higher power right now.  To me it's sad that in a few weeks or months, people will have put their god back into their pocket to be brought out next time a tragedy occurs, but it would be wrong of me by society's standards to judge people for not practicing what I believe.  Within my faith, Christianity specifically, it is time to come out of the woodwork to show the world that Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell are wrong, and are not representative of how most christians feel, just as most Muslims are stepping up to denounce bin Laden's views.  Also, that we are not a faith that keeps God in our pocket, but that we worship him in times of joy as well as sadness.

Offline funkedup

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« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2001, 11:50:00 AM »
No problem here Sandman.  Sorry if I upset Ammo.   :(

Offline -ammo-

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« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2001, 12:29:00 PM »
I am not upset. I am at work :) I will respond at home at length. My skin is very thick.
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Offline weazel

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« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2001, 02:55:00 PM »
The question is:

Where and Who - are the men of god in the US?

Maybe I asked in too oblique a fashion?

The media shows us bigots and charlatans like Falwell or Pat Robertson, low life scumbags who agree with the islamic radicals in regards to Americas spiritual bankruptcy.

In regards to the separation of church and state, that's hogwash as any presidents religous beliefs surely play a role in his thought processes and the path he will take in dealing with problems.